The Conjuring: Last Rites Director Michael Chaves Talks About Making His Half-Billion Dollar Horror Hit [Exclusive Interview]

This article contains spoilers for "The Conjuring: Last Rites."

James Wan may have been the initial mastermind behind the "Conjuring" film series, but Michael Chaves can arguably claim just as much ownership at this point. As the director of "The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It," "The Nun II," and "The Conjuring: Last Rites" (we can debate the canon of "The Curse of La Llorona"), we've watched in real time as Chaves has grown from promising horror newcomer to a filmmaker more than capable of sending this blockbuster film series out with the bang it deserves. And audiences have responded too — "Last Rites" is the most successful film in the "Conjuring" universe at the box office. Audiences have embraced his stewardship of the franchise.

With "The Conjuring: Last Rites" now available on VOD (and coming to physical media next month), I sat down with Chaves over Zoom to discuss the creation of the final film in the series (he insists it is definitely final) and what comes next for him as a director.

Note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.

I'm a sucker for every "Conjuring" movie. This one worked for me in every way. I'll start off with the obvious question, which is, at what point in the process did you and everybody realize, "This is probably the last one." How early or how late in development did everybody realize that?

I think from the very beginning. I think that was something that was really important with everybody involved, starting with the studio. We had a discussion where — I was talking earlier about how I love "Nightmare on Elm Street." I think that was such a fun series, but it was a series that really never came to an end. It just kinda kept on going until they just stopped making them. New Line, and really Dave Neustadter, who is one of the key core creative executives at the studio, had said, "Let's end this movie while we're strong. Let's end it on our own terms." That was kind of our guiding marching orders going through the whole movie.

It was honestly something I would just remind everybody about at every stage of the process, even as we were going into marketing, about how important that really is to like, we are telling the last chapter, and to really put that in the forefront. And I think it kind of brought up everyone's game. I think it also just brought like a great sense of mindfulness to myself. Every day on set, I was like, "This is the last one and I gotta really enjoy it."

There's a sense of finality throughout the whole movie, and it's not just in the demonic scenes and the scares, but in the character work, the relationships, the slow build toward the finale. Can you talk about how you approach the scenes that are gentle, dramatic scenes or even funny scenes compared to the horror? Do you have to change your approach as filmmaker, or does it all come from the same core for you?

I think it's always the same core, and I think the scares work if you care about the characters. And so they're always just hand in hand. I've gotten in trouble in the past about trying to like bifurcate them too much, where you just think like, "Okay, we've got our story and then we've got our scare sequences," almost like you're dropping them as self-contained modular units and it's really just, how do we fall more in love with the characters, be more attached with the characters, and then take them on this journey as they're going into places that we don't wanna see them go down? It's all together. It's all one.

What is the process of directing Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson? Their chemistry feels so lived in and so natural. How do you work with actors to bring out such natural chemistry like that?

Yeah, I just create a safe space on set. They're so great and they know their characters so well, and they're directors also, which is something that early in my career, I would get intimidated about. It's like, "Oh, they know more than me!" [laughs] But now it's like those people who have directed movies who are working in other capacities, whether they're actors or cinematographers or whatever it is, they actually bring so much more, they're so much more supportive of the whole process. With them, I just remind them of where we are in the story, and then I just let them go. They're so great, you know?

What's your favorite scare in the movie? When we talked to you about "The Nun 2" years ago, you told me all about the magazine rack scare, which is still a top five "Conjuring" universe scare. Is there a scare here that you think maybe tops that, or is a new favorite? I'd love to hear how you approach building scares and which one stands out for you now.

I love the wedding dress mirror room sequence. That's absolutely my favorite. I think that's the favorite sequence that I've done. I think the visuals alone are just so striking and fun. I really enjoyed that. In terms of bang for your buck, the scene at the end of the bed, the succubus attack where Jack gets levitated, where it reveals she's at the end of the bed, it always gets the biggest response in theaters. So in terms of bang for your buck, it's such a simple moment, but it really, really works. But I still go back to the wedding dress mirror room sequence. I loved making that, and I just think it looks awesome.

So once this film enters its climax, it's unrelenting. And I think up to this point, I think "Conjuring 2" had the most bombastic, non-stop finale of any "Conjuring" movie. I think "Last Rites" feels like it wants to top that. Was this your deliberate attempt to go, "We're gonna end this as big as possible," and did you have "The Conjuring 2" climax on your brain as your competition for the scene?

Good question. I think it was just, I wanted to be relentless. One of the big things to juggle was ending with the hanging, and then after they think they've lost her again and then they bring her back, I think that was always a tightrope for me because I just felt like we've already killed her twice in the movie, both as an infant and then as an adult, and we've brought her back both times. Are you still gonna be on the hook for those final few minutes as she finds this strength from within. So that was always one of the big challenges. Even as I watch it now, I'm like, "Do we still have it? Did I play it too long, or should have been tightened up?" [laughs] But in terms of "Conjuring 2," gosh, I love those movies. I'm such a fan of James. And, you know, there's no competition. I'm just so grateful to be working in this incredible series.

So the wedding finale, a few of my colleagues have described it as the "Avengers: Endgame" of horror, where you bring back everybody for the last scene, except it's a funeral with Marvel and it's a wedding here. What was the legwork to making that happen? Who manned the phones to call everybody and say, "Hey, do you wanna come back and pop up in the church?"

Oh my God, everyone did. And it was amazing because so many of those people I was meeting for the first time. It was a massive feat of coordination, because we were shooting in England, so flying people over just for one day — really what ended up being one afternoon — to shoot that, it was a big feat. And I'm so glad that I didn't have to keep track of everybody that was gonna be there. [laughs]

How emotional was it for everybody to be in the same room? What was the mood like during that scene?

It was great. It was like a family reunion. It was really cool. It was also a family reunion that I feel like I married into, where I don't know everybody, but I definitely still have like an emotional connection to it all. It was great.

Well, this is clearly the end of the Warren story in a very specific way with Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson playing them, but we do meet younger Warrens in this movie. I know you probably can't say anything if you do know something, but have there been conversations about Warren prequels with new actors telling stories about those early decades?

This was always designed as the final chapter, and I think that's the official story that we're sticking to. "Logan" was a big reference for this, and I think that idea of, we imagine her daughter going off and having adventures and being a young mutant. So I just think that it was something where, I think it's good to imagine beyond the canvas of the movie. But we want to just really focus in on this one.

But that doesn't mean the "Conjuring" universe is over. I mean, "The Nun" and "Annabelle" proved there's still a hunger for more movies with this combination of character drama and scares that deliver the haunted house bang for your buck, but also the emotional connection that I think really leads to people feeling the way they are. So in your mind, is there more "Conjuring" universe, and are you still involved?

I think there totally could be. The motto is always like, let the audience ask for for more. I guess by the results, they probably have. [laughs]

I feel like there are still unanswered questions from "The Nun 2." I feel like "The Nun 3" is something that could happen and could conclude that story, right?

Yeah. You know, it's funny, that was always something — it was like a hanging chad that I always wanted to try and tie in more completely. That kind of genealogical connection. Yeah, I think there totally could be.

One more potential sequel thing. We're all excited by Crooked Man. He's still one of the best one-off "Conjuring" villains, and there was talk of a film a while back. Have you heard rumblings? Has anybody asked your opinion on Crooked Man? What's up with Crooked Man?

It is fascinating. Crooked Man is the question that everybody asks [laughs], honestly, it's strangely more recurring than if there's gonna be another "Annabelle" sequel. I don't know, it's so fascinating. I think it just got some mixed reviews. I always loved Crooked Man. I think that some people thought it was CG and rejected it, and it was absolutely not. It was all that amazing creature performer. But, um, yeah ... no comment. [laughs]

Fair enough. It's been really fun to go back and watch your earliest movies, and your growth as a filmmaker is obvious. It's really fun to see how much more confident and scary your films have become as you've made them. What are some of the key milestones where you find yourself growing as a filmmaker and becoming more confident in pulling off what you pull off in these films?

It's a great question, and honestly, it's something I've thought a lot about on this journey. This has definitely been my favorite film to make. I totally appreciate the compliment and the observation. I think that the biggest lesson is that it's a team effort. And the best experience and actually, I think the best results, come from hiring a really good team, surrounding yourself with the very best people, and then supporting them in giving you the best stuff possible. I think the wrongheaded approach of making movies is just thinking that it's about one person. Directors get both too much credit and too much blame on the movies.

I feel like I've been the most successful in really just taking myself, my own ego, out of it and being more about like, "Hey, this is a team. I'm a coach, and I just need to get the smartest people around me. I need to activate them. I need to give them a safe space to create." And then really let them unleash something great. It's like the Steve Jobs quote of, "I don't hire smart people and tell them what to do. I hire smart people and ask them what to do." I think that kind of idea makes the job so much more fun and so much more easy. So you can be more an editor. You can be like, "We're gonna do that. That's a great idea, but it's not right for this." And then you can pick and choose the best stuff from these amazing people around you. That's been my biggest lesson and it's the biggest lesson I would give to any filmmaker out there. And it's hard because, when you're starting out, it's all on you. You are really the only person. You don't have much of a crew or much of a team. But as you move up, you start to surround yourself with really great, talented people. And I think that's the key.

All right. I have time for one more question. The movie's about to make a half billion dollars. People like it. It's a success. I think this is your chance for your blank check. What is your blank check movie? If the studio comes to you now and says, "You made us a half billion dollars, what do you wanna make?", what do you pitch right now? What's your dream project?

Oh my gosh. It's such an interesting question. I love, actually, that podcast Blank Check. I don't know if you're listening to that. Um, so many movies. I mean, honestly, I don't wanna speak too soon. I basically am making my blank check movie right now. It's the type of thing that I've always wanted to do. It's "Conjuring 5." [laughs] Just kidding. It's not "Conjuring 5," just a joke. I can't say what it is because hopefully I'm shooting it at the beginning of next year.

"The Conjuring: Last Rites" is available now on Digital, and it arrives on 4K, Blu-ray, and DVD on November 25, 2025.