Moonlighting Creator On The Show's Streaming Debut And Why It's Been MIA For So Many Years [Exclusive Interview]
When "Moonlighting" premiered on ABC as a midseason replacement on March 3, 1985, it instantly connected with an audience that had no idea they'd been waiting their entire lives for a show like this.
Created by Glenn Gordon Caron, the series starred Cybill Shepherd and Bruce Willis as Maddie Hayes and David Addison, the squabbling owners of the Los Angeles-based Blue Moon Detective Agency. Shepherd had been a movie star since her debut in Peter Bogdanovich's "The Last Picture Show," while Willis was a virtual unknown. ABC had objected to the casting of the latter, but Caron fought the network tooth and nail, and wound up with possibly one of the most smolderingly sexy "will they or won't they" narratives in television history. But the series connected with viewers on a deeper level due to its pop cultural smarts. It flattered us with deep-tissue references to classic films and genre tropes, some of which we knew and some of which drove us to discover classics we might've missed out on otherwise.
I was a media-devouring 12-year-old when "Moonlighting" hit the airwaves, and it felt like an oasis in a sere landscape of formula-driven dramas and sitcoms. Granted, some shows worked clever variations on their chosen formulas, but they were still operating within a convention-laden space. "Moonlighting" was a mystery-of-the-week show on the surface, but it seemingly reinvented itself with every episode. And its main cast, which also included office assistants played by Allyce Beasley and Curtis Armstrong, was game for anything.
Due to a variety of issues (musical licensing in particular), "Moonlighting" has been unavailable to stream in its intended form for quite some time. This will end in October, when Hulu brings the show back in all its digitally remastered glory. It's been a long road for Caron, and he's so thrilled by the series' return that he hopped on the phone with me to discuss how this streaming deal came to be. And because I'm an admirer of his bizarro, pyrokinetic rom-com "Wilder Napalm" (starring Debra Winger, Dennis Quaid and Arliss Howard, with a script by the then-recent NYU grad Vince Gilligan), we also talked about how that film misfired with moviegoers and why it hasn't had a cult resurgence.
Note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.
'For the most part, they left us alone and we just had a lot of fun'
We've been waiting for a very long time for an official release of the series. For you, what's this journey been like to finally get "Moonlighting" back out into the wild?
Well, it's been a very, very long one because it's been trapped in a strange circumstance. When we did the program originally, we made it as partners with ABC. I made it as partners with ABC at a time when there were these things called the fin-syn rules, which meant that if you owned a television network, you actually couldn't sell a television show. Those laws went away eventually. What it meant was that it was very hard to syndicate the show, which is why after it was on ABC, it really didn't get a lot of play. I actually went to Jeffrey Katzenberg at one point and said, "Can I somehow buy the negatives from you?" He laughed at me.
It's been a really, really, really long journey. Every so often I'd sort of weigh in and say, "Hey, is there any way we can put this stuff out there?" Because when Disney bought ABC, it became a Disney property and all this sort of thing. Finally my agent, Paul Haas at WME, sort of beseeched Joe Earley, who was running Hulu, which Disney owned a big part of, and Joe got really excited and said, "Yeah, I think this might be a really great show for us." That got the ball rolling. We've been working on it now a little over a year, and it's very, very exciting, really exciting, really thrilling, and particularly in light of everything that's been going on with Bruce, because he very much wanted people to see it, very much wanted his young girls to see it. I've always felt like there's a whole generation of people who only think of him holding a gun and have no idea how talented he was as a comic actor, as a romantic actor. I'm really excited about that.
I was a teenager when it aired, and I think "Moonlighting" was my gateway drug to screwball comedies.
Well, I like hearing that. The truth is I always got credit for being this sort of cinephile, and I really wrote it — it was written very instinctively. But as we were making it, Bruce, who was in some ways more of a cinephile than I was, would come over to me and say, "Hey, you ever watch Preston Sturges?" He turned me on to movies that I wasn't familiar with. I was a big Capra nut, I was a big Marx Brothers nut. We had the Three Stooges in common. You can tell that when you watch the show. But he had other references, and I had references that I turned him onto. Then of course, Cybill was an encyclopedia of film because she lived with Peter Bogdanovich for so long and every night he'd show her a movie. We were all very aware of the fact that we'd been given this great toy to work with. ABC had sort of said, "Okay, here are some cameras and here's a bunch of film." For the most part, they left us alone and we just had a lot of fun.
'I don't think people will miss the things that we couldn't quite get done'
It was so much fun. When I saw the news of the show coming to Hulu, the first thing I was looking at was the music. I think of, obviously, The Ronettes, "Be My Baby." I think of "Papa Was a Rolling Stone." Were you able to preserve the music?
I would say we were able to preserve the vast majority of it. There were certain ... here's the thing: You can't compel people to sell you the rights to their song. You can't compel people to sell you the rights to their song for a price that works for the people that are trying to finance this thing. Once or twice, and maybe slightly more than once or twice, we had our hearts broken and we had to do things somewhat differently. I would say 95% of the time in the ways that matter most, it's there. I think the songs that people remember, there's songs that are most important to the show and drive the story and the action, and certainly everything that Bruce sang and Cybill sang, and Curtis and Allyce, that's all there. I don't think people will miss the things that we couldn't quite get done. It won't surprise you, like the Rolling Stones, we just couldn't [get the rights].
Beyond that, I think they've done quite an amazing job, and it was something that people said couldn't be done, and the team that Disney put together, which was very reverent about the show, they were all fans and seemed really flattered to be given the chance to do this. They really took it seriously and I'm excited for people to see it. I'm excited for people to react to it. I'm excited to see if there's maybe a new generation that might get a kick out of it.
Certainly. Yeah, it's been a while for me, but it's a show that is timeless just in its tone, and it's what you set out to do with it.
From your lips.
'I had no idea what I was doing when we did it'
In terms of your cast, and obviously Bruce probably couldn't do this, but Cybill, Curtis, and Allyce ... could there be a Q&A, some kind of interview retrospective, something like that?
I spoke with the cast yesterday. I'm sure they'd be up for something like that, but there's nothing like that planned at the moment. Again, this all happened largely because of the strike. It was a period where I was very intensely involved. Then the strike hit, and of course Disney said, "Well, you can't be involved now in the way that we had imagined, but it's very clear what we need to do. We don't think it's going to be a problem, blah, blah, blah." Of course, nobody knew the strike was going to last 150 days, so we haven't put anything like that together, but I'm sure something like that could be put together.
Obviously Bruce wouldn't be involved, but he and I are still really close. I try to see him once a month. I was just on the phone with his wife yesterday, and I know it means the world to them. I know he really wanted his little girls to see it. I know Emma really wants the girls to see it. I know his older children, although I haven't spoken with them directly in a bit, have always been big fans of the show. Anyway, to answer your question, the answer is no. We haven't put anything like that together, but everybody's still very invested in the show, so I'm sure we can probably make something like that happen.
That would be wonderful. It's amazing that this is all coming together, and I'm excited to share "Moonlighting" with younger people because they haven't really seen the show. I just think there's a timeless quality to the show. It will continue to play.
Yeah, it's hard to believe how long ago it was. I'm not sure you're aware of this. It was 30 some years ago. I won't lie to you, for me too, emotionally, it's very overwhelming. I had no idea what I was doing when we did it, except that I knew what I wanted to do. The fact that I found these comrades who were willing to do it with me was kind of amazing. Bruce was an amazing comrade, Cybill, Allyce, Curtis — an extraordinary crew of people. Then I picked this moment too, and it wasn't because I was a smart person. It was completely kismet when ABC simply wasn't paying attention. For a long time, we were able to do exactly what we wanted to do, and then when they looked up, it was successful. They said, "Hey, this is great." I'm not sure under normal circumstances, frankly, we would've been able to be quite as rebellious as we were.
'This amuses me. Maybe it'll amuse someone else'
That's the thing. You guys got away with it. There was no show like that on the air. Then as the show went on, we would be waiting for new episodes, and for you to have that kind of leeway was incredible. I know that was complicated by the careers and where Bruce and Cybill were headed.
Listen, it's a great problem to have that you've created a television show, and the television show has vaulted the people involved to a place where they're being given artistic opportunities that they very much want to pursue. It is problematic, it's tricky, but it also speaks very highly of them and of the enterprise that they're involved in. I never resented it. I was always thrilled for Bruce. I was thrilled for Cybill. I was thrilled for myself, to be perfectly honest with you. I got to direct a bunch of movies and we had this playground, and literally every week Bruce would come in and say, "What are we doing this week?" I'd say, "Hey, let's do a boxing show, do a show about boxing. Hey, let's do a musical. Let's do iambic pentameter. Let's do black and white. Hey, do you think Orson Welles would come on and introduce this show?" My ignorance turned out to be an extraordinary gift. I didn't know how outlandish the things I wanted to do were. I just thought, "This amuses me. Maybe it'll amuse someone else."
'They didn't hate it -- they didn't know what it was'
Okay, I have a back pocket question because I am a fan of "Wilder Napalm."
You're the fan! I've been looking for you!
I've written about it a couple of times. I think it's a wonderfully off-kilter love triangle. I think, kind of like "Moonlighting," there's nothing really like it. I know obviously Columbia or Tri-Star didn't really know what to do with it, but how do you feel about that movie all these years later?
It's funny, when I was making it ... I just thought it was the most fantastic [movie]. I'd show it to people. I remember Debra Winger turned to me and said, "This is my favorite movie I've ever been involved with. I love this movie so much." We showed it to TriStar and they were like, "Wow." Then we started showing it to audiences. Audiences hated it. They didn't hate it — they didn't know what it was, and it perplexed them. I had never failed before. I'd done "Moonlighting" and I'd done a movie that I'm extraordinarily proud of called "Clean and Sober" with Michael Keaton, that completely redefined Michael's career.
Terrific movie.
Thank you. Here was a movie that literally people just looked at and went, "What?" I thought, "Oh my God." Vince [Gilligan] was still living in Virginia with his mom. Seriously. I felt like I'd let him down. I felt like I'd let Barry Levinson down, who was one of the producers of the movie. [Producer] Mark Johnson, not to mention Debra and Arliss Howard and Dennis Quaid and Jim Varney.
'There were parts of it that I loved as much as anything I've ever done'
Jim is so good in that movie.
I was really thrown off my moorings, and for a long time I didn't look at it because I thought, "Well, it's just not very good. It doesn't do what it's supposed to do. It doesn't take an audience and transport them." There were parts of it that I loved as much as anything I've ever done. Particularly, there were moments with the singing firemen. I thought it was beautifully designed. John Muto, who was the production designer, did a fantastic job, and physically, it was a difficult production. It was shot all at night, all nights. It was also a minute before digital visual effects. I mean, Spielberg was making "Jurassic Park," but we weren't. I watched the movie again about six months ago and went, "Goddammit, I still love this movie." It's complicated. It's really complicated.
Every so often, I'll get a call from somebody. I remember one night, this was a while ago, the phone rang and it was Penn Jillette, and he called me and said, "Hey, I saw this crazy movie, blah, blah, blah." This was back on my voicemail, he left a 15-minute voicemail message telling me how much he liked the movie. That means a lot to me. When you fail like that at the sort of baseline requirement, which is to engage an audience, it does a number on your head.
I remember, and I'm not comparing me to him, and I'm not comparing my movie to his movie, but when I saw [Damien Chazelle's] "Babylon" and felt the general public reaction, I thought, "I know what he's going through. He's got to be thinking to himself 'I didn't anticipate this. This is an odd feeling.'" Because clearly so much love and care went into that film and it's filled with great performances and beautiful design and all sorts of things. I'm hoping the difference, obviously, is "Babylon" will eventually get another day in court. It's just too important a movie. "Wilder Napalm" has sort of unfortunately fallen between the cracks. You and six other people are the only ones that ever ask about it.
'I was so convinced that it was everything I wanted it to be'
I will keep championing the movie. I think there is an audience for it. There are people who will love that movie.
Well, it means a lot to me that you say that. If I can ever give any help ... I'm very proud of the movie, and I know the people associated with it are very proud of it. I know Debra and Arliss, who are married now, by the way, are big fans of the movie. Dennis has confessed to me that he loved making the movie and loves the movie and was sort of baffled that it didn't do better. Jim's no longer with us, obviously. That's the funny part. While I was making it, we would put it together and screen it. There was a local AMC theater that we were using as a screening room, and we'd screen it and go, "Goddamn, look at this thing." I was so convinced that it was everything I wanted it to be. I had friends, close friends, who, when they saw it, they shook their heads. They were baffled by it. My wife at the time looked at it and said, "Oh my God, what the hell is that?" I remember showing it to Warren Beatty and Annette Bening before we were making ["Love Affair"]. I know Warren was baffled by it, and the way he got out of it was he said, "It's okay. I never really understood any of the Fellini films either." I thought, "Boy, what a wonderful, deathly compliment."
I mean, that's like he compared you to Fellini. So, yeah, take that.
Yeah, kind of sort of. We both have two legs.
"Moonlighting" will be available to stream on Hulu starting October 10, 2023.