Fresh Actor Dayo Okeniyi Talks The Power Of Social Thrillers And Working With Robert Rodriguez [Interview]

Last weekend saw the release of the much-anticipated Sundance darling "Fresh," a genre-subverting thriller which centers on the horrors of dating. Daisy Edgar-Jones leads the film as unlucky-in-love Noa, a woman who's grown tired of meeting terrible men on dating apps but seems to luck out when she has a grocery store meet-cute with a charming doctor, Steve (Sebastian Stan). While we the audience are plagued by clarity, spotting his red flags from a mile away, Noa finds herself plucked from the rom-com she thought their relationship would become and thrown into a horrifying, twisty tale with a light dash of cannibalism. 

While Noa makes sense of her new reality, her best friend Mollie (Jonica T. Gibbs) grows more suspicious of the relationship and seeks help from her bartender ex-boyfriend Paul (Dayo Okeniyi). Though he comes in and out of the film, playing a small part in the overall story, Paul is a prime example of the way director Mimi Cave and writer Lauryn Kahn toy with audience expectations. This is part of what drew Okeniyi to the role, and in our conversation below, he had plenty to say about where Paul fits into the film's messaging and his overall experience of working with Cave, Kahn, and Gibbs. He also hints at some upcoming projects, including Robert Rodriguez's sci-fi thriller "Hypnotic" and another romance-gone-wrong horror flick, "Run Sweetheart Run."

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity, and contains mild spoilers for the ending of "Fresh."

When it gets to the end, you're like, "Oh great, the guy is here to save the day again." And Mimi and Lauryn go, "No." They go, "No, the women are going to save themselves from this story. This is their story. They got themselves in this hole and they have the agency and the willpower to get themselves out of it." And then we get to kill two birds with one stone, where, as a Black guy, he shows up and he hears a gunshot and screaming? "I'm out." We are out of here. I knew Black folks would have a cathartic experience when that moment came. Because at that moment when he shows up, what's everybody saying? "Get out of there, bro! Get out of there, man. What you doing there, bro?" So once he does that, I knew Black people would have a cathartic experience with him going, "Nah, I'm out of here, forget this. I don't want no smoke." So that's just great writing, where you get to kill two birds with one stone in that way.

I also feel like Paul, he's also part of the problem in society, right? I think the movie talks about the different horse blinders that men put onto the plight of women in society. There's the manifestation of evil itself with the character like Sebastian's, who I think spiritually shares similar traits with like a Harvey Weinstein or with a Cosby or somebody like that, that just actively goes out there to destroy women. And the ecosystem that men like that create with enablers, the people that Sebastian's characters sends his delicacies to in the movie. Then you have people like Paul who think they're righteous because "I don't do nothing to hurt women. I never hit a woman in my life. I never da da da," but who are silenced to the plight of women at the same time.

Men who, you know, you're getting paid more than a colleague at work, [even though] you do the same thing. And the only reason why you're getting paid more is because you're a man and you do nothing to rectify that. Or you witness a woman getting rough handled in the street on the train or on the bus or something and you just put your headphones in and you're like, "Oh, that's none of my business." There are different aspects of men who, in their silence, are also culpable to getting their fair shake in society. I think Paul also speaks to that as well. I just love a film where, at the end of the movie, there's going to be a huge conversation that's had.

I think that's what "Fresh" does. It's such a great movie. I think it's a communal movie, I think it's a movie you watch in a group. It's a movie where you scream and you shout and you throw popcorn. I am an advocate for a quiet movie theater. Don't be on your phone. Don't be texting, chew quietly all your Doritos before you get into the movie. I'm that guy. But every once in a while, I think there are movies that come out that justify screaming in the movie theater and almost having a call and response with the audience. And I think "Fresh" is that. I think it's just a fun movie in that way. But very intelligently written as well.

So, you touched a bit on the experience of working with Mimi and I know you also have "Hypnotic" coming up and spent some time working with Robert Rodriguez. What were those collaborations like?

Very similar. With "Fresh," Paul, like I said, he's a peripheral character and he's actually more of a meta-character. We're using him to really play on the conditioning of audience members on what to expect rather than a narrative character. So that's a different thing. With "Hypnotic," I don't even know if I'm allowed to talk too much about my character there, but working with Mimi and Robert, what they share is an absolute knowledge of cinema, an absolute knowledge of how to, for lack of a better term, manipulate the expectations of audience members. And they do not sit on a high horse. "What are your ideas? Bring yourself to the character. Feel free to play with things. Feel free to use a script as a blueprint. We'll shoot the script and then you just do whatever you want to do."

It's so funny you've just brought up Robert. I never really thought about it, but they both gave me something that I've never had on movies like this. Like I said, a lot of really great big directors are very protective of their material. "No, just do the page. You are a pawn in my little movie, come here, serve your purpose and leave." But no, they were so ... everything, even with wardrobe, "How do you want to wear your hair?" The design of Paul, the tattoos, everything.

I mean, Mimi sent me three songs. It was Wu-Tang, The Art of Chessboxin'. She sent me like an Anderson .Paak song. We kind of created a playlist and she's like, "I think this is what he would listen to." When you have conversations with people like that, it's like, "Whoa, she knows her world. She wants to create a living, breathing character." And Robert Rodriguez, too, is the same way. I went in there and he was like, "What do you want to wear? What do you think he's going to wear? How do you think he walks? How do you think he talks? What kind of weapon does he carry?" All this stuff. I think it just makes a richer experience. I think filmmaking is always best when it is a collaborative experience. So yeah, she was amazing, Mimi Cave. I think she killed it. This is her first movie, too, which is like, what the — how did you do this on your first go? That's insane.

How big is that for you when you're picking projects? The idea of who you're collaborating with.

Everything. My first thing is always who's producing this, who's directing it. And then I look at the character afterward, because character is different. Character should challenge you. It's should scare you a little bit. So I want to know who's a part of it and who's making it, because I want to know how good it's going to be. So it allows me to be as afraid as possible to play the character, because I know I'm in good hands and I can experiment and I can fail. When it gets into that editing bay, the director's going to look out for me. For me, it's always "who's involved?" Character, that's always ... as an actor, I always hate the question of "What do you want to play? What's that one role that you're wanting to play?" It's like, I really don't care. If "Black Panther" directed by Ryan Coogler is better than "Black Panther" directed by Johnny Two Shoes. You could say, "Oh, I want to play Black Panther," but it's, "Whose Black Panther do you want to play?" So that's why I don't really covet roles. I covet relationships. I covet getting the chance to work with extremely talented people. People who are more talented and way smarter and way more savvy about this industry than I am, because they just make you look better, period.

When I spoke to Daisy earlier in the week, she was saying that despite this movie having really heavy material, there was a jokey and hysterical energy on set. Was that also the case for you?

100%. When you watch the movie, as far out there as it is, you have to have levity making the movie to not go crazy. You can't be too serious making a film like this because it's just too much dark on dark. I think that juxtaposition also plays in the movie as well. The movie needs to have those ebbs and flows to allow the audience to breathe. It's just brilliant, starting with that first date that she goes on with the scarf guy. There's so many ways that the movie gives the audience a warm blanket. That whole, "Thank God it's not me." There are filmmakers that do that very well. That's what allows you to laugh and then you second guess yourself, like, "Why would I laugh at that? Am I a disturbed person? Am I a psychopath that I would laugh at something like that?" But I actually think there's a psychological term for it. I can't remember right now, but it's one of those things where we are able to laugh at embarrassing moments in our past, that we thought was the end of the world for us when we were kids or something. But now we can laugh at that.

That's when it's striking a chord that's true. When a standup comedian goes on stage and just says something extremely true, that's what's funny about it. So I think our movie is touching on truth. And even though it's heightened and even though it's a little bit stylized, I think there's levity in that. There was a lot of levity making the movie and that shines through in the final product, as well. I think that's what makes it a nice rollercoaster ride. At the end of the day, it's a movie. It should be enjoyable and entertaining and a little bit educational and all that stuff as well. So I don't think people should be concerned if they find themselves laughing a little more in the film. You're not a psychopath. You're not crazy.

Even in the interactions with Paul and with Jojo's character, we see that. They're flirting, there's joking ... and then there's the whole "my friend is missing."

It's true to life. A lot of people use comedy to cope with crazy situations, especially Black folks. We hide behind our traumas with comedy all the time. I mean, we've created social platforms, like World Star. World Star has been thriving off of the trauma of Black folks since the end of time. But I think there's a cathartic experience in that, there's something cathartic about laughing at your traumas. It makes it small. It's a way to overcome it. I don't look down on that. I think that's a good thing. It makes some of these big issues palatable, for sure.

Can you talk more about that dynamic between Paul and Mollie?

It was so funny, because I get to set and Lauryn Kahn already wrote an incredible script. When we get to set, she's like, "Look guys, I'm not Black. I wrote this the best that I could. I really want you guys to have the freedom to add — no pun intended — but to add as much color as you want to the scene as possible." Most of that was written as-is. There are little flourishes there that Jojo and I were able to come up with. There's a handshake that we do in the movie and that was something that we came up with on our own. We were like, "Oh, to really put a nice button on the scene, a little gesture like that could speak to the history that they have together, because this is the only scene that they have in the movie." But you have to be able to create. You have to have the audience feel like they've known each other forever and ever. So, little flourishes like that, of course joking about the beard oil and things like that, "The beard is connecting," all that stuff was improvised on the day. But to Mimi and Jojo and Lauryn Kahn's credit, they encouraged that. They were like, "Just really bring that world in there. Really make them feel like three-dimensional people and not caricatures."

To me, that's the biggest sin, is when people of color are caricatured in storytelling. So to be able to come in there and create a character where you can go, "Oh, I know that guy. I know somebody like that." Or "I know that girl," or "I know why they didn't work together, they're both weirdly toxic in their own way." I think that's all fun. And Jojo is such a great actress, man. Strong. So when you throw something at her, she'll throw it back at you. We could keep going forever and ever like that.

"Fresh" is now streaming on Hulu.