kirby_characters

Hot on the heels of the lawsuit filed by Jerry Seigel’s estate to reclaim ownership of Superman, the Jack Kirby estate is suing many companies — Marvel, Disney, Sony, Universal, 20th Century Fox, Paramount and others — to reclaim copyright ownership of characters created and co-created by Kirby. That’s a big roster: the Fantastic Four, Captain America, the X-Men, Iron Man, Thor and many others. Lawsuits like these aren’t uncommon, but there’s one ingredient that could make this one more likely to have long-term effects: it is being litigated by the lawyer who successfully won some Superman rights for the Seigel estate.

BleedingCool (via Nikki Finke) is reporting the news. The report says that:

[The Kirby Estate] has sent notices terminating copyright to publishers Marvel and Disney, as well as film studios that have made movies and TV shows based on characters he created or co-created, including Sony, Universal, 20th Century Fox and Paramount Pictures. Just as the Jerry Siegel estate has done so with rights to Superman, so Kirby’s estate is looking to regain his share of copyright in the characters and their use in comics and other media.

Marc Toberoff, described by Finke as the “bane of big media,” is the lawyer arguing for Kirby’s estate. The payoff here, if the argument is found to have merit, would be that Marvel/Disney would retain the character trademarks, but Kirby’s family would negotiate new financial terms for the exploitation of his characters.

Kirby’s work has been a source of contention for years. His classic stories and characters were largely all created under implied work-for-hire arrangements. That is, he owned no rights to his creations. In 1978, copyright laws changed, and required all work-for-hire arrangements to be specifically controlled by contract. Kirby refused to sign Marvel’s, and left the company.

In the mid-’80s, Marvel was under pressure to return original artwork from the ’60s and ’70s to the artists, and Kirby’s art became a particular sticking point. (Artists could sell their original pages, generating significant extra income.) He refused to sign the contracts offered by Marvel, and the battle over his art became the greatest public spectacle in the comics world at the time. In 1987 Marvel returned around 1,900 pages of art to Kirby, less than a quarter of his output. (The Comics Journal has a much more in-depth report of this situation.)

Even at that point Kirby was arguing for creator-owned rights within the comics industry, and that argument had long repercussions. The formation of Image Comics, for example, was directly influenced by Kirby’s battle with Marvel. Kirby’s fight for copyright ownership began during this period as well, but as comic writer and Kirby friend Mark Evanier said (quoted in that Comics Journal piece), Kirby “had decided in the early 1970s that, financially and emotionally, the copyright issue was not a fight he was prepared to fight.”

  • So, this is bad, right?
  • Vegetax6
    Same question as Corey, can some one explain exactly what were looking at if they win? What does this mean for the films?
  • Rockie
    interesting
  • RussFischer
    This isn't likely to stop any films. Like I said, if this goes forward, it will basically mean money goes to the Kirby estate for each project.

    It's interesting in the sense that the conflict over the rights to Kirby's work has been going on for 30 years.
  • zoey
    jack kirby is marvel.
  • I think it's the opposite, my friend. Marvel is Jack Kirby.
  • Hoo boy... Don't know if this is good or bad.
    As far as I know, it won't halt production on anything-- and if it will, it'll most likely be a week off for the cast and crew.

    Kinda nice his family'll be seeing some green for his work and pride. He put alotta work into those only to be badly repayed by some people in the industry, I hear.
    But yeah. Dunno who to root for. I'm neutral on the whole thing, really.
  • samboni
    why should the kirby estate get the rights to these characters when stan lee co created more then half of them and hes still alive
  • Tom
    Stan Lee is famous for being less than half of the creative process but taking most of the proceeds and credit. I hope they all burn for what they put Kirby through in the last years of his life.

    Actually, I hope they sue, get the characters (won't happen) and just throw the characters away. Screw Marvel and screw these characters. Marvel's ruined most of them by now anyway for short term money.
  • Maven
    That's a completely ignorant thing to say, Tom. First of all, Kirby was paid for the work he did. Marvel owns the characters, because they paid him to create them. That's how the entire rest of the universe functions. For example, if you hire someone to build a house for you, the house is yours after you pay them. The Contractor doesn't get to continue to charge you for every time you enter it.

    As for your silly "just throw the characters away" statement: yeah, that's smart. Let's screw over the fans and force hundreds of people into unemployment just so you can be a petulant child.
  • Tom
    You're whining about "screwing over the fans" and you're calling me petulant? Actual human beings were screwed over in this business. Not superpeople, but guys with families. I think that more than anything now the Kirbys want credit, since slowly that's being drained away from Jack. Did you know that last year Marvel put out a book of recreations of ephemera from the sixties and seventies (I forget the publisher, but rest assured Marvel was heavily involved) and they not only went FAR out of their way to minimize the use of Jack's artwork, but on the endpages, which were decorated with enlargements of all or the artists' and writers' signatures from that era, Jack's was omitted? This is something that Stan Lee had been trying to do for years, and now that he's out of the picture, the company that he worked for (having been given the job by his uncle, no less) is still trying to build the myth that Lee is some kind of genius. That's the real reason Jack's artwork went missing years ago; his habit of writing the stories as he drew them would have made his contribution to the writing all the more obvious. This has been said many times by many people involved in the industry at the time. That artwork was destroyed, costing Jack and his family hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    I'm not entertained by hacks and thieves puppeting these characters around anymore. Don't be a dope. Disney won't let them fade away. I'm just saying I'd love to see them do exactly that.
  • moviefan
    Yea i wonder hw things will go. Will it just be the kirby kids wanting money from marvel/disney-etc studios to use the characters. Or could it be as troublesome as the whole superman copyright dc/wb is going on with this laywer.
  • MR.NIL
    King Kirby will rule them all!! But really I hope the man who created the look of the greatest characters out there gets his proper respect due. And who knows maybe other writers and artists won't get screwed.
  • Wally
    Unfortunately both Jack and Roz have passed away so even if they win they won't see the fruits of this. Their kids and the memory of the King's work will. If Stan Lee can get such a great payoff then Kirby needs to definitely get some money. But then this will open a whole new giant can of worms. If you want to nitpick then people like Chris Claremont, Frank Miller, John Byrne, Dave Cockrum, Paul Smith, Len Wein and countless others who have contributed to the Marvel characters and their movies should all get a piece of the pie as well.

    This case has a happened before when Marvel wouldn't return Jack's artwork in the 80's. Who owns what in a work-for-hire world is really open to new litigation and if the Superman case sets precedence. But will it?

    Its tough to say...you can go back and say that if George Lucas didnt retain right for Star Wars what would have happened today to the franchise? What would Fox have done insetad of merely being the distributor.
  • Branchex
    I doubt the family will win now that Disney is owned by Marvel. They are the company that has congress change copyright law so they can keep control of Mickey.
  • you got that reversed...its the mouse that owns the spider. :(
  • tom
    Well, I would never have guessed that the Siegel and Shuster families' lawyers would have beaten Time/Warner/Comcast/DC/Turner/MGM, but they did, and they may have set some precedent that might influence part of the ruling in this case. We'll have to see.
  • jrice73
    Now this could be very interesting, what with Disney now owing Marvel. Disney is even more corrupt than Fox and Tom Rothman and is notorious for pressing the federal government on changing copyright to fit their pocketbook. This will be bigger than the Superman case, mark my words.
  • WithGreatPower
    In that case, I hope Kriby wins. This is like the underdog story of a lifetime... two of the world's most beloved and yet most greedy creative corporations have merged, and now it's up to one man's battle to prove that a mind cannot be owned.

    Although if he plans on stopping the Avengers heros' movies (Iron Man, Thor, etc) from the awesome snowball they're in, then I say forget it. There *is* a line not to cross... it's one thing to have justice finally done for someone who's been manhandled by economics and greedy corporations, but it's another thing to take that too far and let it resort to vengeance or spite. In a perfect world I would say that Kirby should get the money that he's deserved for a long time, but the ball should keep rolling.
  • greggorybasore
    The problem here is that Kirby is dead so nothing that happens in this case will benefit him directly. Still the money he should've gotten back the day would have been left to his family anyway so i guess it all balances out.
  • Enthropii
    Damn...
  • Michael F
    Kirby created these characters for Marvel as a Marvel employee. He did not create them, then give Marvel publishing rights. The 1978 law was a great move, but puts work-for-hire from before then in a grey area. The way that the estate is going about this reeks of a money grab. They saw the Superman suit and thought "We want some, too." The rights are not theirs to revoke under any law for several years. With Marvel retaining the trademark on the characters, I think that a peaceful approach would have been much more productive.
  • I hate fights by estates. I'm sure most of them don't really care for legacies, just the money they bring in instead. I'm all for his family getting some money for it but owning the rights too? That maybe a little too much. He did create those characters as his job to do while under employment of Marvel during compensated company time so technically, it's company's asset.
  • greggorybasore
    Since most of the characters in contention were co-created with Stan Lee who signed a deal with Marvel years ago promising not to try and get his copy rights back in exchange for a lucrative profit share of all movies based on marvel properties (even if her wasn't directly involved in creating the characters) this shouldn't be too big a deal.

    The most I think could happen is that the Kirby estate would own half the copy right and be owed a large sum of cash for any Marvel movie or comic using Kirby's characters and possibly they'd be able to use the characters in comics and other media and just have to pay Marvel a cut.
  • DaveOB
    I fully support this.
  • dontgivethem5hit
    this is a total crock of crap. next thing is the guy who designed the camaro will sue chevy...he worked for and created these for and working for marvel, period. the real pitiful thing here is the family of such a talented artist is so untalented the only thing they can do is to sue the company their father worked for in hopes of milking some money for themselves...
  • Hostile
    Hopefully this'll keep them from making a Captain America movie and ruining the strength of the Steve Rogers character.
  • Maven
    Yeah, like the Iron Man movie "ruined the strength" of Tony Stark's character. *eyes rolled*
  • Name
    Steve Ditko should hire this guy for some Spider-Man money.
  • livingdeadman
    theres only four toes on that hulk foot in the kirby art. doesn't matter though cause it's jack "king" kirby. by that rational i guess i'll be drawing the hulk for now on with only four toes.
  • Jack
    Jack Kirby also used capital letters and punctuation, and could probably spell.
  • victimblue
    Kirby deserves all that is owed to him. i hope the Kirby estate win this. Kirby is King.
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