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Chris Nolan Says Superheroes Don’t Exist in the Nolanverse

Posted on Friday, October 31st, 2008 by Peter Sciretta

The Los Angeles Times has posted the final part of their interview with Christopher Nolan, who took the time to speak out about the crossover potentials of the Nolanverse and the DC Comics universe:

“I don’t think our Batman, our Gotham, lends itself to that kind of cross-fertilization. It goes back to one of the first things we wrangled with when we first started putting the story together: Is this a world in which comic books already exist? Is this a world in which superheroes already exist? If you think of “Batman Begins” and you think of the philosophy of this character trying to reinvent himself as a symbol, we took the position — we didn’t address it directly in the film, but we did take the position philosophically — that superheroes simply don’t exist. If they did, if Bruce knew of Superman or even of comic books, then that’s a completely different decision that he’s making when he puts on a costume in an attempt to become a symbol. It’s a paradox and a conundrum, but what we did is go back to the very original concept and idea of the character. In his first appearances, he invents himself as a totally original creation.” … “It’s a different universe. It’s a different way of looking at it. Now, it’s been done successfully, very successfully, in the comics so I don’t dispute it as an approach. It just isn’t the approach we took. We had to make a decision for Batman Begins.”

So don’t expect Superman to team up with Nolan’s Batman any time soon, or at all. Nolan also answers a question about the potential studio pressures to make another sequel:

“They’re being extremely gracious. I have a very good relationship with the studio. They know that I really needed to go on holiday and take some time to figure what I want to do next. They’ve been very respectful of that, which is terrific and one of the reasons I enjoy working with Warner Bros.”

I think Warner Bros is playing it smart, which is very unusual for a Hollywood studio. But I’m willing to bet that Warner Bros’ graciousness will disappear as time moves on.

Comments

gah

Thats already extremely obvious but cool interview nonetheless.

dave

well it could be plausible that superman is still in high school. he is younger than bruce anyway right? perhaps its batman that encourages other superheros to emerge. i wouldnt completely rule it out.

but i do hope that if nolan doesnt make another movie he at leasts produces a comic series based on this and continue it with mini stories (e.g.; gotham knights)... like what whedon did with buffy.

shann1

Actually, in the comics Superman was the first superhero to actually go out in public dressed as a costumed hero. However, Bruce started training to become Batman when he was very young, so the idea did come to him before Superman was famous. In other words both heroes developed independantly of each other and just happened to come out relatively close together.

raides

Yea the interview is kind of interesting, and really shows the comic knowledge of Nolan. I don't really like his explaination of superheroes not existing in the same universe. The whole idea of a crossover film should always be optional. If Nolan and his universe knew anything about the comic book of Batman and not the "image of the man", he would know that Gotham co-existed with Metropolis for many many years before Superman and Batman ever met.

One of the best ideas of the Justice League being created was based on the premise of all the heroes meeting each other while trying to stop the same evil force. This is a great story to be told throughout the ages. The entire film idea would be perfect in a Nolan Batman film because the entire story sides the audience with Batman. Batman is the only non super hero in the story, and all of the other heroes not only underestimate him but side completely with Superman on issues. Batman plays a very loner hero in this story. They all meet each other for the first time, but Batman has information on all of them and when they first made appearances to the public. This alludes to the fact that Batman and the heroes all exist in the same universe but have had isolated in their metamorphis as a hero. All of this would make for a very great film and would be exactly up Nolan's alley.

Rob

Makes perfect sense. Nolan's film isn't about the comic book, it IS about "the image of the man". If we want the comic version, we can read the comic (several Batman comics, in fact) each month - the film is, quite rightly, something different. They've thought about the awkward question of whether or not superheroes as a fiction or a concept should exist in a world apparently without heroes, and decided against it for reasons of charcter and story.. which is the best reason to decide on something, in this context.

Superhero films are hamstrung by either being slavishly respectful of the comics, or the opposite - completely ignoring the comics altogether. Batman Begins, Dark Knight and Iron Man are the three superhero films to date which have all avoided those traps, taken the best aspects of the character and its mythology, and got it exactly right. As a result of sticking to their guns, Nolan's Batman won't lend itself to a crossover; Favreau's Iron Man will. All fine.

In my opinion :)

whatever

I don't know why you took this boring approach Nolan. Bruce Timm made it work and TDK isn't the most realistic movie itself what with a guy walking around with a gaping wound like that being exposed... so I don't know what he's talking about really...

frankfurter

So I guess Nolan didn't read Batman: Year One all the way. In the graphic novel, Alfred briefly mentions a flying man in Metropolis. Why can't Nolan's Batman and Reboot's Superman just start coming out at the same time? Everyone would love to see Bale and Routh go at it.

Rob

I never thought a cross over with Superman or another super power enabled Superhero would work in Nolan's universe. So I am not shocked. I could see a Green Arrow type of Superhero crossing over though. Granted I don't know if there is much of a clammor for a Batman/Green Arrow crossover.

I think trying to cross over Nolan's Batman with Superman would be a huge failure. Batman is based in the real world and Superman is based in fantasy.

phil

Superman isn't based in fantasy, he's based in sci-fi. and so is Batman.

The Dark Knight is a science fiction film, even if it isn't always described as one.

if you can believe in memory cloth that forms a hangglider when shocked, or a machine that turns everybody's cell phone into a 3D imager then you should be able to believe a man can fly.

hell, if you can believe that Aaron Eckhart and Christian Bale both want to bang Maggie Gyllenhall then you should believe ANYTHING.

Captain Awesome

phil,

In terms of character and world design. Batman is more realistic than say someone like Superman. Superman's design at it's base "is" fantasy. Along with who the characters interact with and what they morally deal with. Batman is the most personal of heroes in the comic universe because he "doesn't" have superpowers. Superman is more of a living lightning bolt that has his metal tested by intergalactic beings. His struggles on Earth have to do with him being an alien, even though he looks human. Those gadgets, the stuff Bruce uses. Actually has a tangible technological backing to it. Most of those gadgets you see are inspired by what we have now or what's being made now for the future.

And for the most part, what Nolan said is why I do love his take on Batman. He finally took a lot of the camp out and grounded him in a very dirty and breathing world. While I love what Timm did with B:TAS. They're still two different beasts. It's a cartoon vs. a movie.

There are other characters I could maybe see fitting in Nolan's Batman world. But Superman just wouldn't work. Unless Nolan created him as a very displaced character you hardly ever actually see on screen.

raides

Again, after reading some more thoughts, if you don't believe a crossover would work for Batman then you do not know Batman at all. There are a ton of great stories of Batman and Superman out there already. What is great about Batman is that in each story he is a realist. He is the only one who questions Superman and his good deeds. He also makes his questions and concerns known to Superman, which leads to hilarious bantor and dialogue in the stories. Batman: The Dark Knight by Frank Miller would not have been as great without the reality check scene with Superman. Mark Millar's Superman Red Sun would not have been a great read without the introduction of Batman in Soviet Russia. Even Grant Morrison knows the importance in his examples in Final Crisis and other Batman books. The two characters are like peanut butter an jelly. One without the other only tastes good for a short period, but together they are classic. Their existences in the comic world and in their creation are very directly related. To not address this would bring a dishonesty to the series and to its original creators. Granted this story is not needed to complete Nolan's series, but to completely eliminate the idea of it is childish and an almost Puritan like bias decision.

shann1

Actually even if we take out Nolan's view of superheroes not existing in this realm Bale's Batman and Routh's Superman can't make sense meeting. Batman Begins/TDK are a complete reboot start from the beginning beast. Routh's Superman was a continuation of the original 1970's films (updated to modern times). The universes can't cross over because Batman's universe doesn't mention any other heroes, while in Superman's universe he is already very well established and world famous. The only way it could work is if they somehow had the two universes conflict or become AU (the way they did with the reboot of Star Trek). But I think it just wouldn't do justice to the feel of either film.

Henry Jones Jr

I think Nolan is starting to wear-out his welcome. The direction he's taken Batman is a very limited one. Where does he go from here? He's sucking all the fun out of the franchise. It's turning into "The Departed" with rubber bat costumes. Dark Knight was a great movie, no doubt, but I think it might be time for someone else to take over the reins. Someone with a little more respect for the comic book genre.

Captain Awesome

raides,

But you also have to take into account the vision and the overall style of the pieces you mentioned. You can't compare what Nolan did to what Miller created with TDK. It works in Miller's fashion because of the exaggeration. It wouldn't work in Nolan's world. Unless it was completely turned over.

I don't think it's impossible to have Superman in a Nolan batman movie. But Nolan would re-work him so much as a screen character, that it wouldn't be like the Reeves version. I've always loved the give and take between Batman and Superman. Which is one of my favorite things about those two characters interacting. But I want Superman left out of this Nolan run.

We have such a good thing going now. That I don't want it ruined by Warners turning this into a Spider-Man 3 or a Shumacher fuck-up.

Captain Awesome

"Dark Knight was a great movie, no doubt, but I think it might be time for someone else to take over the reins. Someone with a little more respect for the comic book genre."

Oh god, fuck no. You are insane if you think he doesn't respect the comic material.

Captain Awesome

Also as someone said on that LAT article:

"My hope is that Nolan comes back for one more film and completes Bruce Wayne's story arc - creation, sacrifice... and redemption. Batman needs to become a hero to Gotham City and one more film can end it on that perfect note."

I want Nolan to give me one more film aswell and I can fuck off into a world with bad comic films and hope for people to stop ruining the franchises I do love. Even with all the millions poured into these comic films, it's sad we get barely less than a handful that are even passable, a couple that are excellent.

Enrique Garcia

You guys are so obsessed with adapting comics into movies that you're missing the point - Rob hit it right on the head, the Batman franchise of movies is no longer about the comic, it's about a real man in a real world who's taken drastic measures to achieve something.

Nolan's gone through a lot of work to ground Batman in some kind of "possible" reality. To begin introducing characters who are 100% impossible would break that illusion of reality.

PLUS, really, really think about it - Nolan's Batman world is a gritty, dark place where crime is rampant. To introduce Superman, whose Metropolis makes Gotham look like a shithole, would create a "fish out of water" story that would focus on Superman instead of Batman. Just because it works in comics doesn't mean it'll work in movies.

And anyone who brings up the Iron Man/Hulk idea from earlier this year... that was NOT a crossover, that was a cameo.

raides

I really don't know how many times I would have to say this for this thread, so I will go with a new statement for the first time.

"Just because Superman is in the movie does not mean that he would have to fight an Intergalatic being."

Nolan's version of Superman could be EXACTLY like that of the one Christopher Reeves played. Why ? Mainly since Christopher Reeves did not fight a supervillian until Superman 4. All of the other times he fights a mortal man. A genius, but a mortal.

Keeping Batman in this limited of an environment is a problem. It almost makes me think that he will never bring back the Joker character. That would ruin the series. The Joker is also human and can be put into Arkham for a few years to age where he would meet Harley quinn and be played by a new living actor in the fouth Batman installment. ("OMG HE SAID HEATH WAS BAD!!?" Heath was not bad, its just that before that movie even came out, how many people thought he would never be as good as Jack Nicholson's version ?)

The stories are there. The ideas are present. Being close-minded and trying to make Batman suddenly a REAL character is ludicrious. Yes, most of his gadgets can be made in real life. However scaling buildings and swinging from one to the other at over 500 ft in the air is a little harder to accept for a normal everyday guy. Bruce Wayne's life has been built off of his environment, an environment that is a story of fantasy. Fantasy does not have to only involve super powers , dwarfs, and magic...it can also be a reality that most of us wish we could live. A fantasy.

Captain Awesome

What limited universe are you talking about? This is Batman's world, no one else. If Nolan decides not to bring back the Joker, so what? There are plenty of other characters he can tackle.

My enjoyment in these films is seeing what Nolan comes up with next. Not redoing what or bringing back what he's done before. He even re-invented Batman's suit in the second film. This is about Batman and no one else in the grand scheme of things.

And people really need to let go of the fact that it's not about emulating the exact persona's you see on paper. But that someone of Nolan's talent took what was 2d and realized it in a tangible world. And he excelled at it. There's more than enough going on in Gotham for Nolan to play with if he decides to do a third film.

Mag

Everyone hates Superman!.....Even Nolan

raides

Not bring back the Joker ? Really ? If that is the case, and Dark Knight was compared to Godfather 2 as a perfect sequel, the 3rd installment looks to be about as good as Godfather 3. I think that was the issue with Batman and Robin ....dumping as many bad guys in a film and secondary actors to hope that someone enjoys it.

Here is the reality of the situation though. Batman does not belong to Nolan. All he did was present a character that was not his original idea in a new light. The man did not create life on screen. All he did was direct the story of Batman how it should be directed. I respect him for that. I am grateful he did so. However, all of this Nolanuniverse talk is horse-sh*t. Kevin Smith I can see having his own universe because he created all the characters from scratch and used them all in repeated fashion, but I really think there is way too much hype and pressure on Nolan. In the end I would like to think that some exec or person from DC approached Nolan and badgered him about the crossover so much that he made a comment like this in a public interview.

fanboy d

i've always found the fact that batman co-exists with supernatural forces in the comics to be mildy jarring, i much prefer nolan's approach.

and i love superman too, but in a world where he exists batman seems unnecessary - that's a problem i find with the dc universe, i feel like the characters work on an individual basis but putting them together is unnatural

i don't feel that way about marvel, however, which i recognise is ridiculous, because not only do you have magic and tech based characters co-existing, but it's all in one city!

Captain Awesome

No one said Batman belongs to Batman? But Nolan's vision of the character is his.

"In the end I would like to think that some exec or person from DC approached Nolan and badgered him about the crossover so much that he made a comment like this in a public interview."

Whatever makes you sleep at night.

Captain Awesome

Belongs to Nolan* I meant :P

Wintermuted

From a person who never saw as much value in comic stories as the next fan, I am more than content with the approach that Nolan and Company took. What he explains here should very well have been obvious to many, otherwise a lot of Begins power begins to diminish. Nolans Wayne simply has taken what is at its base a crazy idea, and fashioned it into a potential (albeit near insane) direction for man to take. To have superheroes in this specific universe is not only silly, it comes off as gimmicky, boring, and at worst, dramatically fatal.

Part of what gives the Nolanverse its juice is that this version of Gotham is so troubled & broken that the actions of one without superhuman abilities comes off as a cause for inspiration & hope. It simply makes no thematic sense to sully it with what humans can never be.

Nice try folks, but save that crossover talk for another universe.

Vile82

Makes sense in a superhero/real world universe.

bongo

ok, first of all, introducing superman will just be so random considering the fact that nolan's batman is meant to be very realistic. if they introduced superman, they'l also have to introduce villians with super power, which ultimately will defeat the purpose of batman being in a realistic universe.
as for the hulk/iron man thing, it seems more plausible because both of their stories weren't as realistic in comparison. i mean, you have a guy who turns into a green monster and a guy who puts on a metal suit and fights off bad guys with even bigger metal suits. plus the amount of CGI used in both movies is 100 times more than TDK. Put hulk and ironman together and you wont be disturbing any sort of a reality balance.
it's just like adding spider man or daredevil to a punisher movie, they just wont fit in.
on the other hand, i guess they can add robin to the movie, but making him realistic will be a tough job.

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