Today, the Wall Street Journal published an op-ed piece that is on crack. The writer’s main point is that Batman, The Dark Knight himself, is George W. Bush and only by placing America’s current president in a mask and an ab-defining bodysuit can liberals and conservatives alike respect his neverending fight against the evils of our day. The intro actually compares the film’s bat symbol to a “W.” Is the Rupert Murdoch-owned paper this desperate for hits?
“There seems to me no question that the Batman film “The Dark Knight,” currently breaking every box office record in history, is at some level a paean of praise to the fortitude and moral courage that has been shown by George W. Bush in this time of terror and war. Like W, Batman is vilified and despised for confronting terrorists in the only terms they understand. Like W, Batman sometimes has to push the boundaries of civil rights to deal with an emergency, certain that he will re-establish those boundaries when the emergency is past.”
In keeping with the WSJ’s batshit allegory, wouldn’t Osama bin Laden be locked up in Arkham (Guantanamo Bay?) by now? Yes, the film’s sonar scenes draw obvious comparisons to The Patriot Act—but also, Britain’s widespread Bluetooth spying that was just uncovered this week. Also, any significant other who ventures to the dark side and uses Web Watcher. Moreover, Batman’s obsession with throwing criminals behind bars (not killing them and their cousins), and the moral dissonance that results, is one of the character’s signature traits; see Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns, which was released during the Reagan years, and confronted them accordingly. And I’m sorry, did Batman decide mid-film to forget about the Joker’s bombs and hop over to Metropolis and spend trillions of Gotham’s citizens’ money fighting criminal sects to no avail? The writer makes no point of examining any of this. Of course not. He’s too busy zig-zagging across Hollywood blockbusters using his dooshy moral compass…
“Why is it, indeed, that the conservative values that power our defense — values like morality, faith, self-sacrifice and the nobility of fighting for the right — only appear in fantasy or comic-inspired films like “300,” “Lord of the Rings,” “Narnia,” “Spiderman 3″ and now “The Dark Knight”?”
Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead and take Spider-Man 3. Big loss there. And why is it that this writer wishes to propose to the world that George W. Bush is a martyr—here we go—but can’t come out and say it without cloaking his limp, frightening declaration in a comic book adaptation that is the biggest film of the year, and one of the most popular ever?
“When heroes arise who take on those difficult duties themselves, it is tempting for the rest of us to turn our backs on them, to vilify them in order to protect our own appearance of righteousness. We prosecute and execrate the violent soldier or the cruel interrogator in order to parade ourselves as paragons of the peaceful values they preserve. As Gary Oldman’s Commissioner Gordon says [spoiler deleted, where Gordon says the title of the movie].”
If given the choice for a presidential candidate, Christian Bale’s Bruce Wayne would probably vote for Bloomberg. And if George W. Bush is like any character in The Dark Knight, he’s that jarringly stupid, inept cop who spouts bad one-liners when shit hits the fan over and over. What was up with that guy? There is a big difference between a dumb cop in a movie or IRL and Dirty Harry. To crib from the mighty W: Is the Wall Street Journal drunk?
Discuss: Is Batman actually George W. Bush? Who knew? Is the WSJ correct?
July 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
The diggers are going to eat this up.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Yeah, and X-men was Pro-(Insert random president candidate here)….. Its stupid to say that a Movie is Pro this and Pro that.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. I’m glad Rupert Murdoch has found a use for his new toy. This is complete garbage. Its just a sleazy way to give the republican party some publicity.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Considering Christopher Nolan is a liberal, I don’t see how that’s would be intentional.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
That was absolutely retarded.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I kinda agree with this guy to some extent.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
there’s a huge mistake in their argument: batman WON’T kill, no matter what. can bush say the same?
why have all the NY journalists been ripping this film? are they that jealous of chicago?
July 25th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
This is a rather silly publicity stunt…but just think about the cabinet …Dick Cheney = robin Dick Grayson …. i guess Condy would by Lucious Fox, and Haliburton could be considered Wayne Enterprises ..haha. Yeah ok Rupert, Batman = W…W spends out money on his pointless wim while Batman/Bruce Wayne spends his own. I wonder how the WSJ will interpret Watchmen when the see that …god knows they wont have the good grace to sit down and read it.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Batman was around in the 50’s
Does that mean the bat-symbol represents Truman and Roosevelt?
July 25th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Um, I agree with the op-ed. Anyone have success in dealing with terrorists any other way? Can you name me a reform program, monetary gift program, what-have-you that’s worked? Nope, not one. It’s pretty simple: when someone wants to kill you, is willing to die to do so (or send their children to die), and believes they’re going to paradise for doing it, then _nothing_ is going to change their mind. So you can either kill them first or be killed. I’ll do the former thank you. And those of you who would rather wring your hands had better be glad there are people out there fighting for you.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Ugg who gives a flying f#@k Hunter. . . . why don’t you tell us why it represents the Obama campaign?
July 25th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
George Bush would only be like Batman if Batman was a retarded Texan who’s dad got rich selling oil.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
WSJ is owned by Rupert Murdoch. You do the math.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
I think to specify TDK as a Bush allegory is taking it to the extreme. However, I can see it as an allegory for any president who’s actually taken a real stand against evil at any cost (Bush included).
July 25th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPugAcQILRY
July 25th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I agree with the op-ed also. I noticed while watching the movie the parallels to bush. It is pretty simple to see although I doubt Nolan meant for it to be presented like that. I don’t think the movie is pro bush and the WSJ article isn’t saying the movie is pro bush either.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
please don’t ruin the integrity and magnitude of this film by comparing it to bojangles the clown….
July 25th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Wow. I love the self-sacrifice and moral integrity the republicans demonstrate…yeah right. As they drive their corvettes and vipers to work, and believe in less welfare for the needy…Just like Batman right?
July 25th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Wait, isn’t Batman’s number one weapon terror?
Ah, yes. So they are finally admitting it. George W Bush is also a terrorist.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Man that’s funny. You see the difference is that Batman is pure good. You know he won’t kill anyone, for any reason. George W. on the other had has killed more than 4,000 of our soldiers and helped plan the death of nearly 3,000 American citizens on 911, then more than 100,000 Iraqi citizens have died because of this man. Now that’s not pure Good like Batman. That’s pure EVIL. No comparison at all.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Damn, am I the only Bush supporter on this site? Look, I don’t agree with all the points that the dude is trying to make, but I do think that TDK and 300 make points that mirror the War on Terror. And if liberals can say that movies not setting out to make a message in fact do, and that they are metaphors for things that they have nothing to do with, then why can’t conservatives?
Moreover, I believe that we were right to go into Iraq. I have respect for people who were against that. I have no such respect for those who oppose it for no reason.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
stupid article. this guy should be fired.
since when does a financial publication write about politics and opinions anyway?
July 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
I will have to say that I disagree with their line of thinking. Having gone through the Master’s Program of an American university, I have seen that with just enough reading under one’s belt you can make something relate to just about anything else. This is absolutely ridiculous. I would just like to point out the fact that this film is just good cinema, not a comment on GWB (Goofy White B——). Batman is not GWB, Arkham is not Guantanamo, and I’m not nor will I ever be desirable to women which is why I watch The Dark Knight and know a lot about comics. Case closed.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
why do they read in to it way to much. It is about kinda the war on terror but it means things dont always turn out for the best but we have to just make due and do the best we can do. In a world gone crazy and chaos all around us.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
My 20 year-old son and I (both Libertarians) are big Batman fans. We liked that he was a capitalist that fought crime using gadgets his corporation created because the government was doing a poor job - in Gotham City anyway. So when we saw where they were very obviously glorifying the necessity and great success of spying on the citizens of Gotham - through their cell phones - my son and I walked out shaking our heads.
“I’m really disappointed in Batman!”, my son said. Testing him, I said, “Why’s that?” He said, “Obviously, Bat Man is a Neo-con! He’s pro PATRIOT Act!”
I find some comparisons I’ve seen with Fox (Morgan Freeman) as Obama pretty laughable. But it is completely obvious that the theme of this movie is: “Sometimes its OK to take everyone’s rights away if you get to catch the Joker”. Of course, it’s Hollywood and they did catch the joker. Meanwhile, here in the USA, Bin-Laden and his closest are free while your emails and phone calls are being screened by Uncle Sam.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I thought Revenge of the Sith was a better film metaphor for W Bush.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
HA!
PROPAGANDA!
July 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
If this were true then would that make Obama Harvey Dent or would he be the Joker? Either way, this article is fucking stupid.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
haha, Rupert Murdoch has to keep those pockets filled with cash somehow.
The WSJ is about as useful as a publication as it is in wiping your ass.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Fight fire wth fire couldn’t be more correct. Whoever insults the troops can be my guest and try to deal with these extremists peacefully. Or put a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger. Same difference.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
I understand where the comparison is coming from. However, a better interpretation would be that violence creates more violence. Batman does nothing but create deadlier villians than before. In the case of George W (while I am not a complete supporter I don’t believe he’s an absolute idiot either) creates more problems by not finishing certain aspects of his War on Terror before moving on to the next thing. So there are definite comparisons, I just believe it is being too detailed than before.
I also agree with the statement made about interpretation of movies by liberals and conservatives. If liberal media can proclaim the meaning of something that was not initially intended to be a certain way, than so can conservatives.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Hunter, you have a very strong ‘voice’ in your pieces. Which is not always the best thing, but you also have a great instinct for a story which will grab attention.
Couple of your sources, some logic and editorial decisions I could question. But not gonna deny you’ve written a good article.
Reading the comments will be more amusing than playing devils advocate ;)
July 25th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
The whol sonar system was an obvious jab at the Patriot Act. If you didn’t recognize that, you are a fucking fool.
However, I doubt Batman is G.W. though that would be pretty amazing.
I love hearing these simpering fan boys dice up anything that could be construed as political allegory.
Why don’t you Lycaon bump up your IQ a few points and maybe you’d realize there’s a subtext in almost any intelligent movie you might happen to watch.
Or better yet, stick with the testesterone-charged 300. Sublimely stupid seems right up your alley.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Anthony,
That’s fine. But to compare him to a non-exitant hero like Batman is hilarious. The guy at the core is far on the other side of the spectrum that’s he’s about as close to being Bush as the Joker is being Mother Teresa. Billionaire philanthropist Bruce Wayne? Hell, Batman was smart enough to use Korean smugglers flying under the radar to pull off the skyhook scenario. He knows not to start a war :)
You gotta sell newspapers somehow. And in this day and age. Everyone one in his dying support corner will grasp at anything to plaint that moron as some “do-gooder”. Far from it. If I had to compare Bush to anyone in that film it would be the guy “pretending” to be Batman (see picture). Let’s be honest, Bush is too stupid to be either Batman, Joker, or Dent.
Murdochs companies are pro’s at stirring the pot and shilling this bullshit. Because it works.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I still get confused on one issue. If the 9/11 terrorists were mostly Saudi Arabians, and Osama Bin Laden was tied to the Taliban in Afghanistan, why did we go to Iraq then? It’s kinda like saying the Joker is tied to the Legion of Doom, so lets go after the Flash’s Rogues. All these metaphors confuse me.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
jimbo stewart,
That’s exactly what that Sonar system scenario was. And Batman made it very clear was his intention was when he spoke to Fox. And why he chose Lucius to be the only person to operate it.
The other difference is he kept his word and gave Fox the power to destory once it was used :)
July 25th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Obama’s making McCain look like an old, out of touch, decrepit man (which he is) this week, so Fox news (Murdoch) had to do something I guess?
The TDK merely comments, on the decisions people make when faced with an adversary they don’t fully comprehend, or can’t fight conventionally. It shows the shaky moral ground that people sometimes stand on to get the job done. The film leaves it open for fans to draw all of the parallels they want.
No matter whether people agree, or disagree with the piece, God Bless America that Murdoch can say whatever he wants to in his rag, or on his channel, and get away with it.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
stripetg,
The Joker came to Gotham for the oil and to finish off the problem his father created, “Batman”.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Bruce Wayne would use the opinion pages of the WSJ as toilet paper. He would probably read the rest of it.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
zomg Conan the barbarian is ALSO a parallel for Bush and his war on terror! It’s true!!!
What a douche nozzle.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
ok…batman is not a symbol for George W. Bush. However it is safe to assume that Batman is a republican. Or at very least supports President Bush’s policy of preventing terrorism. In the movie Batman justifies using the device that turns every person’s cell phone into a radar system. He says that is should be used to save lives. This is extremely similar to the FBI listening on phone calls going out and coming into the US.
It also commentates on what should happen after terror cells are erradicated-the program should be disbanded and our intelligence gathering operative should be redeployed elsewhere.
Anyone who denies this is on more crack than the person who wrote this garbage. This belongs in a really bad blog of some dumbass that lives in podunk.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
This is hilarious. I jokingly blogged something a little different on Tuesday. From an entry titled “What If…”
“what if george w. bush is harvey dent.
and of his troubles justifying the bleak “war on terror” he explains
the night is always darkest just before the dawn.
what if saddam hussein was the joker.
he killed without hesitation or mercy,
he was unpredictable and dangerous so we left him hangin.
what if barack obama is the dark knight.
and he wants to make the world a safer place,
bit without blatant disregard for order or justice.”
Now I was only joking and typing up nonsense at the time but if we were to take any of this seriously, clearly George W. Bush is Two Face, right?
July 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
“In the movie Batman justifies using the device that turns every person’s cell phone into a radar system. He says that is should be used to save lives. This is extremely similar to the FBI listening on phone calls going out and coming into the US.”
And Batman has the whole device complete destroyed after one use. How’s the Patriot Act doing these days?
mmmmmm CRACK!
July 25th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Well - I am no american. I don’t know how politics are made over there :)
If Batman is pro-Bush (I did not see the movie yet) I expect a story where Batman makes up some chemical bomb factories and fights muslims because one of them “attacked my father”
Srsly - Obama was here in germany and he was funny.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I kinda happened upon these undertones myself and I do agree with it to a certain degree. Batman is given elevated power during the Joker’s reign over Gotham which gave him the power to use that bat sonar thing which is an obvious reference to the Patriot Act. But they also say in the film that one man should not have this power past a time of crisis and after the Joker was caught Batman destroyed the bat sonar. Another key point is Alfred’s story about the bandit in Burma. Batman finally asks him: “The bandit, how did you catch him?” and Alfred responds “We burned the jungle to the ground”. The film is saying that there is a point where you are sacrificing too much of the order you are trying to preserve in order to destroy something like the Joker, who defys it. Its more of a warning than anything.
I believe that Rachel’s death kind of represented a personal 9/11 in Batman and Dent’s stories. Before Dent flipped a two sided coin. He made his own luck. He already had a plan. But after “the incident” the coin got burnt on one side and it became impartial. He then started to make rash desicions regarding people involved with Rachel’s death (9/11), killing or not killing people based on nothing but a coin flip. He went into the whole situation without a plan. Without a two sided coin.
So I dont really think it is as simple as Batman=Bush. I think the film dealt with many of the desicions made in post 9/11 America and how Batman, the uncorrupted savior, would handle them and how Dent, the rash (two)face of vengence handled them.
Bear in mind that Batman Begins had many political undertones as well mostly having to do with fearmongering so people saying that the Batman franchise is not the place for a political indictment, that is all Nolan’s Batman franchise is about.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
There sure are a bunch of whiny ass liberals on here. Great article WSJ! Thanks to our proactivity we’ve not been attacked on our soil since Sept. 11th. On the Iraq front, we took out a evil, murderous tyrant, his regime and his more evil sons. If we would’ve left right after that, all you baby liberals would be screaming “We can’t leave, we must build their infrastructure, we can’t just leave their gov’t in disarray”, so here we are doing that and now yall are all about getting out prematurely. Don’t forget this a-hole Saddam had violated over 50 UN resolutions denying access to inspectors, led his own people and cabinet to believe he was infact making WMD and British and Russian intelligence led us to believe that as well. Don’t forget, Clinton, Kerry, etc all looked at this same intelligence and voted in favor of going to war. So keep Monday morning quarterbacking liberal douches.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Vega Bro,
Pretty much. People like this writer grab “one” thing from the general theme and run with it. But completely cut out the rest of it.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
lol @ Kareem
July 25th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
No Batman, is not George Bush… I think I smell a bias here…
But I will say that in keeping with the theme of the film Batman is faced with certain moral and ethical questions regarding how far is too far to go for “good” without compromising ones self. These are questions facing the times we live in more than questions facing just one man. This reporter is giving us the perfect example of the egocentrism we americans are hated for around the world. Hunter hit it on the head when he brought up that the British are doing it too. Besides In the end Batman decides to choose Luscious Fox over his invasive technology. He decides not Kill the Joker. And as much as it hurts, he decides to not become what they were even if this means that the criminal underworld will see the “code” he operates with as weakness. If anything Batman’s self restraint should be seen as a polemic, not as a praise of Bushes tactics.
Pshh…
July 25th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Ya the WSJ is owned by News Corp now, so anything they say take with the biggest spoonful of salt you can find. Pretty soon the WSJ is going to fall in line with the Washington Times, The National Review, The Times of London, The Sun, and the Daily Post.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
As terrible as the article is/was, I find the fact that this website chose to bring this article to light and react to it even more retarded. All this has done is sparked a political conversation which really has no place on this site. This whole topic should have been ignored.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Keep the political BULLSHIT out
of the movie(s)!!!!!!who ever wrote
that article is an ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!
July 25th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Lmfao, what?! Wtf? I think this guy is trying too hard … ;;rolls eyes;; Jeez.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
The sonar device is a jab against the Patriot Act, if you ask me. There’s a huge difference tapping into cell phones to find a specific threat, one time. He was also monitoring for one specific voice, not listening in on everyone’s conversations. The Patriot Act, on the other hand, has no clear objective other than to wiretap everyone in hopes of maybe finding something credible. I don’t even know if I’d call it unethical but I would call it a waste of time. Much like doing random bag checks here on the NYC subways.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
@ J. Luna
Well said. The reason why we are calling out this article is that it claims TDK is “a paean of praise to the fortitude and moral courage that has been shown by George W. Bush in this time of terror and war. Like W, Batman is vilified and despised for confronting terrorists in the only terms they understand.”
Joker doesn’t understand the terms of Batman, that is why he loves Batman. He sees Batman as chaos. Also, the criminals in this film murder and pillage, Batman locks them up. It’s not exactly “fire for fire braaaah.” Sure, there are plenty of similarities/resonance in TDK to our present day, as there were in Cloverfield and There Will Be Blood. But the WSJ claims that the film categorically justifies viewing George W. Bush—the worst president in U.S. history—as a hero, a rational man, and—when all is said and done—a martyr who saved us all from an oncoming ball of fire.
This is one of the first articles that I have seen in a major publication like the WSJ (recently sold to Rupert Murdoch, I highly doubt this op-ed would have run before his takeover) that seriously proposes that GW is a martyr who had the patriotic balls that we did not as citizens.
TDK does not justify/promote what Batman does in the film with the sonar, or with the brutal interrogations (again, one can arguably defend this method only if it gets results, which Bush has not gotten—keep in mind, Batman isn’t waterboarding and killing 100s of thousands of innocents). These scenes are there as food for thought, as they have with this character for years and years.
Also, The Joker came to Gotham, Batman didn’t go to him, tear down his statue, build a Green Zone, and blow our economy to hell, and lay off the guy who laid waste to a city. As for the daddy issues, Dubbya is more like ‘89 Bruce Wayne.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
This guy is a Dildo, and if he actually believes this shit he’s a stupid Dildo. There’s a special FEMA camp waiting for him. Ass Tool !
Shit I could write volumes on this, but I’ll just say,,,,,
Bats are warm blooded, and Lizards are cold blooded. ,,,,,,,,
July 25th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
J. Luna,
Well-written post and succinct.
Thanks :)
July 25th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
“Also, The Joker came to Gotham, Batman didn’t go to him, tear down his statue, build a Green Zone, and blow our economy to hell, and lay off the guy who laid waste to a city. As for the daddy issues, Dubbya is more like ‘89 Bruce Wayne.”
I <3 Hunter. (Even if he hates Harold & Kumar)
July 25th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Your question “Anyone have success… any other way?” Yes, check out Switzerland’s zero terrorist attack rate. You are correct in stating that there is no PROGRAM, no monetary gift that changes terrorists’ motives. In fact, those things always backfire. 100% of the time. The CIA calls this ‘blowback’.
By giving gifts and foreign aid to Muslim countries, we’re arming them to fight Israel - and ultimately us. By occupying countries in the Middle East, we’re fueling anger and serving as a recruiting advertisement for terrorist groups. If you think we’re there to ’stablize the region and oil prices’ - uh, don’t think that’s going so well right now.
Consider - if Arabs (or anyone - North Koreans) landed on our shores and began marching through your neighborhood’s streets… what would you do? Right, the same thing I would - shoot them/blow them up! How is it that we’re shocked that they’re doing that after we whacked Sadam, didn’t find any WMDs, and then stuck around for years and years? Meanwhile, UBL who actually declared war on us walks free (or may be dead - who knows?)…
By ending all foreign aid - yes, even to Israel; by trading freely and peacefully with countries we aren’t at war with (this should mean everyone but Afghanistan); and closing our expensive and apparently despised military bases outside of American territory, we eliminate the motive to attack. Even crazed dogs know to not bite the hand that feeds them (through lucrative trade). Lastly, latest public opinion polls of Arab countries (excl. Iraq/Afghan) show they’re pissed at us due to our foreign policy - NOT our culture, wealth or way of life!!!
So, you’re half right. Wringing hands ISN’T what we should do. Protect OUR borders with our military is. Foreign aid and programs ISN’T what we should do. It only fuels wars and supports tyrants. Trading with all countries we aren’t at war with pays for peace through self interest. Like I say, check out the wealthy, Judeo-Christian, oil dependant, very ‘Westernized’ country of Switzerland to see how that plan might work out.
Hopefully Batman will figure this out - when crime doesn’t stop in the sequel. FYI: I liked the movie, just not the theme.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Isn’t that image a huge spoiler?
July 25th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I wrote a huge tirade,but I guess they censored it because I(a spinleless liberal wimp) challenged big tough guy Kareem to a fight. Do you righties ever come accross a war that doesnt give you a boner??
July 25th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
@ Skippy
I didn’t come across your prior “tirade.” Not sure what happened. It wasn’t deleted by /Film.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Hunter, I want to buy you a beer. Gonna be in London at any point?
July 25th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Both as___les. Wall Street Journal Writer and Bush
July 25th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
@ Hunter Stephenson
I dont think the Joker loves Batman because he doesnt understand him. I think when, for example, the Joker says “you..complete me” it is a metaphorical statement saying anarchy cannot survive without an order to disrupt and it also has to do with his statement about how he is a dog chasing cars, he wont know what to do with it if he catches it. He needs Batman.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
VegaBro,
At the start he came to Batman as a means to see what he was all about. He studied him and noticed how many weaknesses he had and used it against him. But by the end the Joker seemed to be infatuated with Batman for the single fact that he couldn’t break him the way he wanted. He mentions that in a fairly sincere way when he says to him that he really is “incorruptible”.
Then again, I’m not wearing any underwear.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
In the world of Gotham City, batman is justified. in the country of Iraq the U.S. is not. End of argument.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
“Like W, Batman sometimes has to push the boundaries of civil rights to deal with an emergency, certain that he will re-establish those boundaries when the emergency is past.”
So apparently W has gotten rid of terrorism completely, and we no longer worry about threat levels, Bin Laden, or have troops fighting/dying in foreign countries? I must’ve missed that.
@Hunter Stephenson
I thought the WSJ article was pretty ludicrous, and I have to give you some props for totally calling the guy out. Good Job, my man. You’re absolutely right…Batman gets results. That should be the end of the argument towards all of the comments on here that agree with the article.
@Captain Awesome and a few others
Thank you for pointing out the fact that the sonar system was destroyed after one use. Anybody comparing that to the Patriot Act…well, we could only be so lucky that Bushman would’ve done the same.
Man, their are just so many points that refute this article it’s almost frustrating that people on here could agree with the article. All in all though, like Hunter said, it’s the fact that the guy is using a kickass movie to draw a paper-thin comparison to George Bush being a martyr. If he had stones, he’d just write an article titled “George Bush: He Will Die For Your Sins”.
Going by this writers criteria, George Bush could also be:
Marty McFly
Veronica Sawyer(Heathers)
Tom Stall(History of Violence)
Harry Tasker(True Lies)
Kevin McAllister(Home Alone)
Pick a 007
William Wallace(Braveheart)
Obviously this could go on forever, because as someone noted already, if you have a decent education or are well read enough, you can any movie a metaphor for just about anything you want.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
U really are a moron.
How could you NOT see this?!
But don’t be fooled into thinking the movie is pro-Bush.
If anything it shows how ineffective Batman is against
the Joker.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I think that the main point of the article is true. George Bush has had to make tough decisions for the greater good (such as the surge) which were not popular, but necessary. (Think if Obama had had his way, our troops would have been out by last March, and Iraq would be in civil war.) All though George Bush has made huge mistakes, such the not supporting FEMA director Brown, he has never let public opinion sway his decision making. You could argue this is a bad thing, saying his an idiot and wont listen, but at least he sticks up for what he believes is right, even if its not popular. None of this means I am a big supporter of the current president, but I believe it dodges the issue to merely call our president a moron, without actually analyzing what he has done in office.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Correction: I meant to say “such as supporting FEMA director Brown after Hurricaine Katrina”
July 25th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
sneakypete,
Actually Batman does win in the end against the Joker. The Ferry scene illustrated this very well. The city didn’t turn on itself like the Joker had hoped for. Much like what happened in BB.
Batman wins that round because his trust in the people of Gotham was validated. Now he just has to worry about being a “cop-killer”.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
@joshmayhood/Hunter/everyone
Although the Wall Street Journal didnt really analyze the film corrrectly, I think it is undeniable that The Dark Knight certainly did have some fairly obvious political undertones. I hope you can agree with that much.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I don’t think that TDK is supposed to be an EXACT substitution (with Bush being Batman and such) but there is no denying the obvious jingoistic sentiments this film puts forward. You slashfilm bloggers are intelligent guys– you have to have noticed the clear correlation to the current world situation (especially the word choices in the dialogues between Alfred and Bruce, as well as Batman speaking with Gordon.) If you deny that there is no comparison that can be drawn, you are simply being willfully ignorant. I’m not saying Nolan meant for this film to be a Republican rally, but it does broach some very interesting topics, and takes a rather conservative viewpoint in its themes.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
@Liberty Bat
I agree with your second post except for “Protect OUR borders with our military is.” Our? They’re not my borders, are they yours? I never contracted with this military you speak of, did you? Frankly, I’d like my money back and to be threatened no longer. Protect your property all you want but don’t use the money that was forced from me, from a violent gang, to protect your ass.
@Perry
Please explain your absurd opinion that the money forced from us should be used elsewhere, especially to kill people.
@Kareem
If it makes you feel better to believe in this security theater, go right ahead. But make no mistake. If someone’s deadly intent on blowing something up, they’re going to do it.
@andrew
Yea, you’re a supporter.
On topic, I do agree with most of your opinions Hunter. Thanks for bringing this douche to our attention.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
@ Raerth
You’re very kind. If I make my way over there this year, I’ll give you a shout. Trust me. ;)
@ VegaBro
I agree that the Joker needs Batman, but one of the core themes is that Batman’s demons and his vigilante methods helped attract—even “create”—the Joker. At the end of the day, Batman is not the sanest guy on the block—he’s a grown man who dresses up as a Bat who talks deeply like a dorky kid making prank phone calls. In the comics, Batman’s reality is not always the real one. And I don’t think this was intentional on Nolan’s part, but when Rachel died, I found Bruce Wayne’s reactions/mourning rather cold, as if she was an afterthought—not the love of his life—in his insatiable mission to stomp out evildoers. There’s a bit of Patrick Bateman’s chilliness within Bale’s Bruce Wayne, maybe even within Bale himself. He’s not 100% stable or sane, but he is in the right. Batman represents “order” to some degree, sure, but I would argue that Joker doesn’t “understand” Batman’s “terms” and his MO, he’s lured to them like a bug to a light or a dog to a car, as you quoted. He doesn’t know why, he just is….because, let’s face, Heath Ledger’s Joker is wacky. He’s almost too wacky and anarchistic to be a criminal mastermind who ties and unties Gotham’s gigantic shoelaces—unlike Nicholson’s Joker—but the performance is also iconic for this reason.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Lamest thing I’ve ever heard. Seriously. W is a fascist. Batman isn’t.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
@Vegabro
Agreed. Definitely some political undertones, and yeah, pretty obvious.
I think the fact that the sonar bit was not only obvious to audience, but shown to be an obviously a bad idea morally and ethically, that it shows Batman is pretty much the opposite of W.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
VegaBro,
of course. I don’t think anyones denying that aspect. But this direct linking in trying to make Bush into some sort of faux-savior of the country? While neglecting all the horseshit he’s done as a president? That’s reaching. Especially when they cherry-pick segments of TDK only to throw everything else by the wayside that easily refutes these rose-colored glasses the WSJ has for the guy.
Batman as a basic design is political. There’s no denying that. His origin and care for people in need expresses this. His restraint from stepping over that “line” and becoming what he fights, is what makes him the superhero people love.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
You know what– that was one of the most articulate expressions of someone’s interpretation that I’ve read since the relase of the film. Anyone who can’t at least grant this interpretation the legitimacy it deserves is simply burying their head in the sand because it aligns a comic hero(Batman) with someone they don’t like in real life(President Bush). Bravo Mr. Klavan Great article.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
http://digg.com/movies/Wall_Street_Journal_Declares_The_Dark_Knight_a_Pro_Bush
Digg it!
July 25th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
George W Bush would clearly be one of the douchebags Bruce Wayne went to boarding school with as a kid, who he hates. He would be have been drunk at the party that Ra’s al Ghul crashed in Batman Begins.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
@ Jon Rocks
Again, Slashfilm would never deny that there are political overtones to TDK. These issues are more open/projected for interpretation, than say Wall-E’s, but there is plenty to chew on, without a doubt.
However, this has ZERO to do with the WSJ op-ed. Some commenters wish to spin the debate here in the WSJ’s favor because they see shades of our current situation/administration in TDK—and we agree!—but this writer makes bold, ridiculous parallels between Batman, Batman’s success fighting crime, and George W. Bush. C’mon! Moreover, the writer is using a comic book film to justify one of the most blatantly bogus wars in U.S. history.
Slashfilm is not here for politics, but this article is effing scary, unprofessional and unethical in how it slyly assimilates a blockbuster film as outright (and unquestionable) propaganda in order to declare our president a modern day martyr (again, this is presented point-blank). The WSJ should be ashamed for publishing this wackness—they have the right to, sure, but the points made are paper thin, and hopefully do not foreshadow further “debates” about Bush’s martyrdom by the mainstream media.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
@ BLKNIGHT18–
Comments like yours part of the problem– people don’t want to have a grown up, adult conversation about things like this. It gets relegated to chat board flaming, and thus anyone who wants to have any kind of serious debate simply gives up and walks away with their preconcieved notions of chat room devotees confirmed.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I think the problem here is that so many people have been spewing anti-bush sentiments for so long, that anyone comparing a beloved hero like Batman to him is immediately dismissed.
Klavan doesn’t try to justify the war, per se. He is simply saying that Batman does things in the film that will cause him to be hated by the people of Gotham, much like Bush had done things that he clearly knew would villify him in the public eye.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
@ Hunter
Hmmm. My interpretation of that is that, really, Batman and the Joker are the same person. They both wear a mask, they both make themselves into a symbol and as explained by the Joker later, he doesnt do it for the money or the fame. They both do what they do because of what they believe in. So really, I think his MO is the same as Batmans and he knows it. ie “we’re not so different you and I”.
I think you had it more with the Joker being able to exist because of Batman and that has to do with the theme of escalation that was introduced back in Begins, but I think that has to do more with why Batman gives up his throne as the savior of Gotham and becomes The Dark Knight.
(One more thing. I really like your connection to Batman and Bateman and starting with their names, I did find them to be quite similar, especially when he puts on his rich Bruce Wayne act.)
July 25th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
“He is simply saying that Batman does things in the film that will cause him to be hated by the people of Gotham, much like Bush had done things that he clearly knew would villify him in the public eye.”
I think thats where the comparison does gain some traction. You would need to compare him to a make believe comic hero to even think Bush even thinks that far ahead.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
@ Captain Awesome–
Nice zing?
Anything to actually add to the conversation?
July 25th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I’ve said what I had to. This subject doesn’t need to go any furthur. Just read whats been posted already.
We’re just re-treading old ground now.
Also, typing with one hand takes way too long.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Those stupid critics from New York are just jealous cause the greatest movie of all time wasn’t filmed there. They had the premiere there so what more do they want. They just got used to the fact that every Marvel movie is filmed in New York, except for Iron Man. I bet they were hating on Iron Man, too.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
People can see what they want in things, but I don’t take life that seriously!
July 25th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I have to admit SB101,
Chicago is a beautiful city, it’s even better as Gotham :P
July 25th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Bruce would support Obama, if he supported Dent.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
We’ve yet to this out: “Like W, Batman is vilified and despised for confronting terrorists in the only terms they understand.”
Both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight go to great length to point out Batman WON’T fight criminals on their terms otherwise he becomes one of them. Duh.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Or you could just set aside all of these petty difference and enjoy a great movie.
But that’d be too easy, now wouldn’t it?
July 25th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Isn’t the point of Batman one of there is a ‘too far’ when it comes to revenge and vigilante justice? “Batman Begins” was clear to say that ‘nation building’ is wrong and dangerously Machiavellian? Batman ultimately turns away from those things, refuses to cross that line.
I believe that has always been the subtext and fascination with Batman, that idea of a real man, not a superhuman creature, making real choices that have real world consequences, to his own life and the lives of others. He makes good choices, but sometimes makes the wrong ones and goes too far or sacrifices too much. And he at times isn’t all that different from those whom he chases, that they are a ’shadowy reflection’ of him, one push and they are the same, to borrow from “Raiders of The Lost Ark” (this is a film site afterall). It’s complicated and, dare I say, nuanced.
All of this is the complete opposite of Bush and the situation that he caused in Iraq. There are no consequences for him, no sacrifice. He doesn’t fight alone, others fight for him. He doesn’t shoulder any responsibility, he blames everyone else. For him, there never is a moment of reflection, a realization that there is a ‘too far’. He is always right and never has to deal with wrong because he doesn’t think he does anything wrong. I find that very un-Batman, to be honest.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
well, he does have a point….to a point.
i always thought of W as a superhero, but more in line of ‘The Tick’.
i mean they talk the same: “Those evil doers can’t escape the long arm of justice.”
seriously….Bush = TICK.
nuff said.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Batman: Actions may have cost lives of less than 10 innocents, feels remorse and questions own actions and purpose, original goal met, sacrifices self.
W: Actions unquestionably cost lives of tens of thousands of innocents, original goal no longer even clear, and certainly unmet, continues to blame others.
Batman: Must bring Joker to justice, let law decide.
W: Must bring terr’rists to Gitmo, keep law the hell out.
Batman: Gives ridiculous power of surveillance machine to someone else he knows will turn it off.
W: Claims right to ridiculous power of surveillance is his alone and no one can ever take it away or punish the phone companies for it, nyah nyah.
Batman: Picks Harvey Dent.
W: Picks Alberto Gonzalez.
Batman: Turns bad guys into pretzels.
W: Chokes on pretzels.
Batman: Eloquent.
W: Friggin’ doofus.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
@ fstop18–
While you take the contrarian viewpoint from me, your post was eloquent and well stated. That is the type of post that makes for a good discussion. Good deal.
Just wish more people took that approach.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
If W suited up and put his own ass on the line, I’d agree.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Calling all tools, hop on board, its the bush hating train!Chooo Choo don’t know anything about life and politics or anything in general? well Nether do nerds who wrote this article(and the dumbass’s joining the train)
Why is it so far fetch, its amazing how you guys shun “W” like he is the ugly girl in class that all of you secretly jerk off too, yet you worship people who do the exact same thing as him, The Dark knight was a look on AMERICA , not George Bush… and the movie WAS a spin on america, and just because its a conservative view(not always ol’Ws) you want to yell and scream…. just don’t see the point of jumping on a bush hating train for war and hailing batman as the best super hero ever …. both fight crime and keep you safe at night … but hey what do i know i’m not fat and ugly nerd who talks out his ass and only watches comic book movies
July 25th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Make no nevermind of the fact that Batman KNEW it was fucked up that he was spying on people with the sonar stuff and thus rigged it to blow up in sparks as soon as the Joker was caught. I don’t hear of any wiretaps going off except for when the administration forgets to pay the bill.
And yes, another good point is that Batman won’t kill. Bush has no problem with that.
And lets not forget that the reason Batman needed to keep Harvey Dent around was that he was a GOOD, LEGITIMATE hope for Gotham. Not a vigiliante - Batman KNOWS his methods are fucked up and the second he feels like he doesn’t need to drop mob bosses from two stories up to break their legs he’ll hang up the cowl. Bush is in it for the long haul.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
@Jon Rocks,
Thanks. I agree, there is an intelligent way to make a point, and even argue. I can be guilty of my own silly and abrasive comments, and there is a place for them. But I hope I am also capable of a higher level of discourse when needed. Thanks again.
Oh, and I also agree with some others, that maybe it’s just a movie and everyone, including myself and the WSJ article writer, could be reading too much into it and interpreting TDK in a way that conveniently agrees with their personal views. Even if you could say that there is no such thing as “just a movie”, that all movies reflect the times in which they were made and comment on them in some way, then TDK could be taken as a comment on the clash of political beliefs in heated times, a mirror held up to the viewer, rather than endorsing any particular belief.
But at some point it does come down to “it’s just a movie” because it can only be an exaggerated sample of reality and never reality itself. So, um, let’s just watch a really cool movie.
Next in our lecture series, “‘The Watchmen’: is discussing McCarthyism still relevant in the Post-Cold War West”.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Hey, you, guy before me - kill yourself.
Hey, guy a few before that (Mark) - way to sum up exactly what I meant a lot better than I did. ;)
July 25th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Actually, I agree with you ohhlookatme. Most people that claim to hate Bush have virtually no idea why other than what they have heard in secondary media such as SNL or Jay Leno and do little thinking and investigating on their own.
America’s hate for Bush, misplaced or not, is the very definition of a bandwagon
July 25th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Well, I mean, it’s not the New York Times, so nobody should actually try to understand the truths behind this man’s words.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Oh, and that article was 100% right
July 25th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
most of you are totally taking the article out of context, READ THE ARTICLE.
He compares the fight George bush faces with terrorism with the dark knight
HE IS NOT CALLING BATMAN GEORGE BUSH
And Im sorry, but batman is a pussy because he doesn’t kill, its his flaw, he lets more people die by letting them live, does no ever see this ?!?!
July 25th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Ohhlookatmeihateeverythingwahwahgeorgebushletsblameeverythingonhim , Batmans a pussy????
He could certainly kill if he wanted too and the collateral damage is allways because of the Criminals actions.
One of the messages in the film is that if anything Batman is uncorruptable.
Most cops arnt. He’s sets an example, even when others think he’s a scumbag.
Ok Cap Awesome, he’s all yours………………….
July 25th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Batman’s rule; don’t kill.
As Governor, Bush put more death row inmates to death than any Governor in American History.
As president Bush is personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands (maybe more) of civilian Iraqi citizens.
I see no parallel between Bush and the Bat.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Hey Matt - I’m from the US. Our Constitution says our military (although couched in the terms ‘militia’ and Navy) are to be led by the President during war, declared by the Congress. The point is, our ‘military’ should be patrolling our shores and army patrolling our borders. Right now, we’re experiencing a bit of an illegal immigrant issue which could be reduced by having a heavier guard on the Rio Grande, for example. Patrolling the Kurdish border, or the DMZ in South Korea isn’t what we’re supposed to do. I know what you mean about “Stolen by violent gang” or somesuch… I do believe in a Federal military force (and it could be funded by sources other than individual income taxes by the way!)… I’m not sure what is Constitutional about protecting other countries borders.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
@ Murry –
Not for nothing, but death row is called death row because people are there to be put to death. There is nothing wrong with a Governor doing what is supposed to be done in that situation.
However, I do feel that this paricular issue takes us away from the topic at hand. Batman’s mission and it’s comparison to the War in Iraq.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
I haven’t read every post, so I can’t be sure this wasn’t already said above. It’s not that Batman is actually GWB. It’s that when GWB was a frat boy and doing coke and all that shit, he read a shitload of Batman comics. See, folks, GWB wanted to be Batman. So much so, that he bought a major league baseball team, because, well, he didn’t really get the part about “bats” right. That was a little confusing for good ‘ol Georgie. At some point - 9/11 - Bush finally realized Batman was not just a dude who was into S&M - he was like fighting crime and protecting the innocent and shit like that. That’s when Bush *became* Batman - well, except for the part about not killing folks. So, next time someone tells you TDK is really supposed to be about George W. Bush, call them on it, and tell them the truth. Tell them just what I told you now.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
@ John Rocks
Not all people on death row are guilty. Plus, putting the guilty ones to death is not justice, it is murder.
Additionally, the Iraq war has absolutely nothing to do with the war on terrorism. Now, if Batman went to Metropolis to fight the crime in Gorham, then it’d be exactly like Bush’s war on terrorism.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
I’m seriously about to cry I’m laughing so hard. That’s hilarious. Absolutely, completely insane and unfounded, but hilarious nonetheless.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
@Murry
“Now, if Batman went to Metropolis to fight the crime in Gotham, then it’d be exactly like Bush’s war on terrorism.”
Spot on, dude!
July 25th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
I think Bush is more like Seth Rogen in Pineapple Express; high off his fucking mind.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
@ Murry –
Saying not everyone on Death Row is guilty is buying into a myth that there is some large number of prisoners (especially those wjo’ve committed crimes worthy of capitol punishment) who are “accidentally” sentenced to death. This simply does not happen nearly as much as people assume it does, especially in this day and age. Besides– ask any prisoner in the prison system and they’ll tell you they didn’t do it. It’s all a big conspiracy, right?
July 25th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Dick Cheney is the Penguin.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
lol @ Dumbass’ comment.
@ 790
Guys like “Ohhlookatmeihateeverythingwahwahgeorgebushletsblameeverythingon” are just being contrary for everyones sake. The name alone says that. I have better use for my time, like picking my nose.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
@ Jon Rocks
Oh okay, so it’s fine that innocent people are executed. Just as long as “This simply does not happen nearly as much as people assume it does”.
I mean what’s wrong with a few innocent souls being snuffed out by the government every now and then, so long as we get to fry the really guilty.
And I’m assuming that you’d be fine with yourself or a loved one being one of these wrong place at the wrong time people?
July 25th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
“The true complexity arises when we must defend these values in a world that does not universally embrace them — when we reach the place where we must be intolerant in order to defend tolerance, or unkind in order to defend kindness, or hateful in order to defend what we love.”
Yeah, that sounds heroic to me.
Oh, and “Ohhlookatmeihateevery, etc” : We ‘fat and ugly nerds who talk out of our ass’ appreciate correct spelling and grammar if you expect us to pay you any attention. Which we probably still won’t.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Yeah I just like typing, “he’s all yours Captian Awesome !!
Since this thread is all over the fracken place, I just wanna say that I just saw the
X-Files, Movie and it was Captain Awesome!
July 25th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
@ Murry –
You act as if some Gestapo is executing citizens for questioning authority. The law states that certain crimes are punishable by death– end of story. Untill that is changed, which hopefully it never is, I am fine with those found guilty of these crimes being put to death. If I commit a crime punishable by death, by all means put me down.
I think people act as if we live in some movie world, and we have people being hauled off at random, never to be heard from again. “The Life of David Gale” was a work of fiction, you know.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Yeah I just like typing, “He’s all yours Captian Awesome !!
Since this thread is all over the fracken place, I just wanna say that I just saw the
X-Files, Movie and it was Captain Awesome!!!!
EVERYONE STAY AND WATCH THE END CREDITS. !!!!!!!!!
There’s a VERY amazing scene you don’t wanna miss, if you’ve watched the series and are a hardcore fan !!!!
Real good musc too in the film.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Cheney is the Penguin.