Last night in L.A., select film sites including Slashfilm were shown The Dark Knight. The collective positive buzz seems to have only increased in the hours since, reaching frenzied levels that are arguably unprecedented (especially for Twitter). Over the weekend, Movie Hole spoke to Gary Oldman about Heath Ledger’s role as The Joker, and what he thinks will happen per villains for a third film. Note: Some readers feel that Oldman’s quotes fall under spoiler material.
Update: Producer Douglas Urbanski, who is a friend/manager of Oldman, has contacted Slashfilm to say that he was with the actor at the time and believes the following quotes were “taken widely out of context.”
Discuss: What do you make of Oldman’s comments? Last time we asked, several readers felt that Hugo Weaving would make an excellent Riddler. Any other suggestions? And how about those early TDK comparisons (made by others) to Heat and The Godfather 2?
Note: If need be, does he believe The Joker will be recast, and if not, who’s the next villain?…
“I don’t see why not. I mean, they did it with Katie Holmes’ character. I understand that this is a different circumstance, but I think another actor could do the job. I think Heath would want another actor to do the job.” Oldman then took a moment to think about it some more, “Maybe we don’t need the Joker. Because we’ll have The Riddler.”
Nice save, Oldman. Also, poor Katie Holmes analogy. The following question is bound to paint the Earth in the coming weeks, just as it did with the release of Batman Begins (and look how that played out): Will Christopher Nolan return?
“We don’t really know if Nolan is coming back. …I guess I have to come back. …Nolan will come back for a third one. I think we all have to.”
For over a year, the rumor has persisted that Anthony Michael Hall (Weird Science, Rusty Griswold) plays Edward Nigma aka The Riddler in TDK. A few commenters have referenced the rumors down below. Slashfilm can confirm that ADH plays TV anchor Mike Engel in the film (as credited on IMDB). Moreover, days ago, Hall shot the chatter down to Sci-Fi…
“…people thought I was playing the Riddler, that I had a cooler role than I actually did. …But I was very happy to hear that there was talk online, I guess with Batman fans suggesting that maybe I was playing the Riddler. I wish I was, you know? I wish I was Batman, to be honest with you, but I think Christian has it locked up.”
Discuss: What do you make of Oldman’s comments? Last time we asked, several readers felt that Hugo Weaving would make an excellent Riddler. Any other suggestions? And how about those early TDK comparisons (made by others) to Heat and The Godfather 2?
June 29th, 2008 at 10:43 am
I’d like to go with someone more along the looks and feel of The Riddler circa Long Halloween. I know if he looked like that it would be too campy but Hugo just doesn’t come off as the type. I could have seen him playing Two Face though.
And what do we think of his comments? Well he’s right, right? If you want Joker back you recast him. It’ll be a bitch to try to be just like Heath’s but that’s what you get if you want Joker back. Otherwise they can just say, “oh Joker went to Metropolis now.”
June 29th, 2008 at 10:47 am
No spoiler alerts on this website, I guess?
June 29th, 2008 at 10:54 am
I think if they were to recast it ben foster should take the role
June 29th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Ok, Katie’s character is highly replaceable. If Ledger’s performance is as legendary as we keep hearing, recasting it would be a huge mistake. Move on, next villain.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Crispin Glover as Riddler.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Wasnt there a rumor a while back about Anthony Michael Hall playing Edward Nigma in this one– which would make him El Riddlero in Part 3.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Anthony Michael Hall plays Mike Engel in TDK, a news reporter.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I heard that The Joker won’t appear in the third film and it will be based on two face in the third.
Gary Olman knows as much as anyone apart from Christopher Nolan to what is going to happen next.
But no doubt I think this film is going to be a milestone for everyone invloved.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:01 am
so now we know the joker doenst die, to me thats a major spoiler and im sure to other readers! please put yourself in your readers shoes, most of us i bet do not want to know if a main character dies or LIVES.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I heard that The Joker won’t appear in the third film and it will be based on two face in the third.
Gary Oldman knows as much as anyone apart from Christopher Nolan to what is going to happen next.
But no doubt I think this film is going to be a milestone for everyone invloved.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:05 am
i agree with ben foster, either as the riddler or filling ledger’s shoes
June 29th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I really hope they don’t replace Heath… it would be an impossible role to recreate correctly.
Here’s who should be considered for the Riddler:
-Jude Law
-Edward Norton
-NOT Shia Lebouf for God’s sake!
Just my opinion…
June 29th, 2008 at 11:09 am
CRISPEN GLOVER ASD RIDLER!!!
June 29th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Meh, Katie Homes performance wasn’t good. I hope Nolan returns. As for the Riddler, I’ll have to wait to make my judgement ,but I don’t think its a right choice after the Joker in #2.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Steve had the right idea. Katie Holmes’ character was easily replaceable, but from what I’ve seen and read, Heath Ledger as the joker would be near impossible. Even if someone could match his performance, it wouldn’t be the same. Move on to Two-Face and other villains please.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:38 am
AMH is riddler durrrrr
June 29th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Villains who could be used in future films:
Catwoman
Clayface
Harley Quinn (please!)
Any of the past Batman villains used in the four from the 90s
June 29th, 2008 at 11:46 am
If Ledger does get an oscar for this I just don’t see him getting recast. I would figured this film would lead to the final film with two face, with no real need for another villian. Unless they redo the whole Two Face/Riddler team up. If they do go Riddler, Long Halloween Riddler would be a good choice.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
As much as I’d love to see more Joker, if its not Health Ledger, what’s the point? He clearly IS the Joker and if the reports are true (which I’m sure they are) there is no replacing him. I like the idea of The Riddler replacing him, he’s my favorite Batman villain next to Joker and he does play a kind of similar role. They are going to have to explain what happened to the Joker though if he doesn’t die or go to jail in the end of Dark Knight.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
David Tennant for an original take or Jim carrey, He is the only role that can be recast and then reshaped. He can play a darker role just look at 23. While it wasn’t a great movie he has range.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
to be fair, i dont think there would be a need to recast a joker. from the sounds of it, two-face is a definite for a sequel, and i think that would be utterly sustainable.
two-face would take on the role of a truly ruthless vigilante: heads=total disfigurement or disability, tails=a bullet to the head.
but if they are to cast a riddler, i would want it to be David Tennant (tvs newest Doctor Who, for those who dont know.) as has been seen, he can act both intelligently and ruthlessly as a better, or a more realistic incarnation, of the riddler than the ‘ol jim carey version.
anyways, wouldnt it be fan-tastic if, in a later film, a few of the lesser, more realistic Batman villains fell foul of two-face? if you feel the same, then what villains would y’all like to see in mortuary cameos?
;-D
June 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Thanks for ruining my whole weekend!
June 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Come on Hunter. That’s why we have “after the jump.” =P
June 29th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
If The Joker was planned to be in the third film, I would not want Ledger’s death to impede that. I hate to sound insensitive, and maybe I am, but for the first time we have Batman movies that bring back their villains for subsequent films, and I’d hate to see that concept thrown out due to respect for an actor, which if you think about it should have nothing to do with the movies or the story they tell.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
@ peter
can this film get an oscar nod? or is ledger the only deserving part of the whole?
June 29th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
i guess a better question would be: which categories can you see this film being considered for?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I’d like Ralph Fiennes to play the Riddler.
If Batman Begins was up for Cinematography, and Heath Ledge is getting real buzz for The Dark Knight, then we may see some real Oscar talk for this movie.
It will probably be nominated for score- what they’re doing sounds really good. Anyway, I’d like it to be considered in all categories, but who knows what might happen…
June 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Hugo Weaving? hmmm intersesting…as for dave tennant That would be exciting…
@ joe
i think harley may be in TDK @ some point…i remember reading some things about her and sarah jayne dunn was cast and isn’t credited w/ a part yet specifically…she’d be an awesome harley and i hope they get to her @ the end of this one-probably to lead into joker’s role in the 3rd (now obv. questionable)
June 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
David Tennant as the Riddler please. He said he’d love to have that role too :)
June 29th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Jim Carrey isn’t old yet. I would love to see him reprise the role. He’s the only one that made Batman Forever watchable. But if he couldn’t Vince Vaughn would be good.
June 29th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
This is the last time I surf this website. How about not discussing the fate of the MAIN CHARACTERS three weeks before the movie is released.
June 29th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
CRISPEN GLOVER!?! He is a F&*%ing hack! And Jim Carey back… OH hell no! We need someone with a fresh take on the role. Not someone who copied the old tv series.
June 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
I just hope who ever the villian in the 3rd Batman is going to be is played by an actor in Heath Ledgers caliber.
June 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Philip Seymour Hoffman as Clayface
June 29th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I thought Two Face was the villain in Part 3, what did I miss?
June 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
the riddler is not needed they should just focus on two face
June 29th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Michael C. Hall who currently plays Dexter might be someone to consider for the role. He’s demonstrated that he can pull off dark complex characters. Has anyone come across this before: Heath Ledger’s Degrees of Separation</a. ?
June 29th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
IF this film is as good as they say it is i dont see the third one being any better. It’s hard for me to say being a huge fan of Batman but it’s almost true.
June 29th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
I dont think Clayface will be a villian Nolan has stated he wants the portrayal of the Batman series to be realistic as possible. As for Riddler, I can see it working. So far there has always been atleast 2 villians in Nolans Batman. Riddler and Two face would be great. Riddler can bring in some smart and intelligent puzzles,jokes, and riddles. Riddler can play some cat and mouse games with the Batman.
June 29th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
If they did bring Joker back in a 3rd film, why not go with one of the choices Terry Gilliam is using . . . Johnny Depp. I think he’d actually do a kick-ass job, and could play it close to Heath’s interpretation and still make it original. I think it would actually really seem almost seamless really, especially with the make up and all.
Of course that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.
June 29th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I think the the reason why batman Begins was good, was because of te good storytelling. Alot of that came from the comic books especially Batman Year One. For me it’s all in the story, if they could make the next one anything like the Long Halloween, that would make my day. Just hope that they don’t go through the same old formula they’ve been using for all the old Batman movies, one or two new bad guys per movie. It’s probably sad that a movie such as Dark Knight Returns or The Long Halloween could never get made because the cost of having so many good actors in one movie would be insane, but that’s what they should aim for, one of those stories.
June 29th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
The next movie is at least 3 years away so don’t trip on the villians
June 29th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
First of all, for those complaining of spoilers: Oldman’s comments don’t necessitate that the Joker lives. He was clearly being asked a question, which he answered. If the Joker does die, he probably would answer it exactly the same way. He wouldn’t come out and say, “Oh, but the Joker dies, so we don’t need to talk about that.” Is that what you’re really looking for?
Second, I’m still holding out for the Scarecrow to return for a bigger part in the third film. There were rumors way back when that his role was going to grow as the series went on. May not be true anymore (or ever), but I’d like to see it.
For the Riddler, I’ll throw Paul Dano’s name into the ring. Or Paul Bettany.
Oh, and is anyone else weirded out that Oldman isn’t sure Nolan is in it for the long run? That has me a little worried. Why wouldn’t he be?
June 29th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Agreeing with Eliza here.
Crispin Glover would be too similar to Ledger’s Joker. I think if they went for a Riddler character. They should go for someone really gaunt and creepy looking.
Oldman’s comment doesn’t bother me. Because he most likely doesn’t know. It’s not like Nolan divulges much info to his people. He’ll probably do what he did after BB. Take a breather, work on something else. Then return for the final film. I can’t wait to get an epic trilogy box set from Nolan.
June 29th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
what?
June 30th, 2008 at 2:19 am
Jude Law would be a fantastic RIDDLER. Definitely would have loved to see Britney Murphey as HARLEY. Scarlet Johannsen might be a decent original BATGIRL, but I’m not sure she can be tough enough. Martin Short would be the perfect MAD HATTER. Ben Kingsley as The VENTRILOQUIST, MR FREEZE, or the CLOCK KING. Or Patrick Stewart as the VENTRILOQUIST, the CLOCK KING, or MR FREEZE (the best Mr Freeze was the deathly serious one from the Animated Series, and Kingsley and especially Stewart would be perfect for that). I would definitely like to see Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson as BANE. Andy Serkis would be a great PENGUIN. Angelina Jolie for CATWOMAN or possibly POISON IVY. Will Arnett for CLAYFACE. And possibly Sly Stallone for KILLER CROC.
June 30th, 2008 at 4:48 am
Carey was a great riddler. I LIKE THE RUSTY GROSWOLD MENTION ABOVE! NICE !!! hahaha
jOKER SHOULD NOT BE RECAST…
June 30th, 2008 at 5:12 am
There’s a rumor that the current doctor David Tennant was in talks to play the Riddler and has said he’d love to play the role he’s got the look lanky and can play both brilliant and psycotic so i vouch for the man and if they do replace ledger only 2 people could fill his shoes Johnny Depp or Ben Foster
July 1st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
according to wikipedia David hyde pierce is talked about as being the riddler, check it out!
July 1st, 2008 at 7:25 pm
The Riddler would be good,might be compared too much to Joker though and no one will ever top Heath’s performance as a villain, in any superhero movie. We’ll have two-face, I hope they introduce Catwoman. They could figure out a cool way to make it realistic. Harley Quinn could work too, as a way of revenge for Joker.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:54 am
David Tennant (the current Doctor Who) has gone on record as saying he would love to play the riddler and i think he would be a great fit. If you’ve read Hush you can see there’s an obvious resemblance and he can play a character that is not only brilliant, but slightly crazy and pretty funny.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Joseph Gordon Levitt looks a lot like Heath ledger, and has proven to be a fantastic actor. I think it should be him all the way.
Also, I love the idea of Stephen Colbert playing the Riddler, because the man has all of the necessary traits. I know its not likely, but it would be an inspired choice.
Hugo Weaving should play Doctor Freeze.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I honestly would rather see the Penguin before I see the Riddler. And I think Phillip Seymour Hoffman would do a splendid job.
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:25 am
Who said Crispin Glover for the Riddler?
ZING!
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Crispin Glover = Riddler.
The man is perfect, and has garnered tons of support from the fan community. They should at least give him a shot.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
No,no,no,no,no,NO,NOOOOOOOOOO! WHAT THE HELL IS EVERYONE ON? DAVID HYDE - PIERCE IS THE OBVIOUS CHOICE FOR THE RIDDLER! And Philip Seymour Hoffman as the Penguin? Hmmmm…….. yeah, he shouldn’t be too bad.
July 4th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Hugo Weaving would be an AMAZING Riddler. What sci-fi fan doesn’t like Weaving? He’s brilliant in everything he does. Fans bashed Michael Bay when he chose Weaving to voice Megatron instead of the original Frank Welker but then when the movie came out every one of those people shut up and later admitted Weaving just nailed it and was probably the best choice for the role. Weaving in Batman would be nerdgasmic.
July 4th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Penguin should be next cuz he was always second from Joker. But not like Devitos monster. More like a con artist playing a role more then a odd ball called ozwalt. To me, only Phil Hoffman, Joaquin Phoenix or best choice without popular choice Andy Serkis, the man who played King kong in King kong, Smegal in Lord of the rings, and morelikly Tesslers buddy in The Prestige, made by Nolan. But Two Face and Batman need a bad guy to hunt down and battle over. RIddler would be good to if they made him more like Jigsaw style then gay like Jim Carry’s tights wearing villain in “you know what” Forever. Bean would be the best choice of villians Henchman cuz he’s mostly real if you pump Human Growth in him. Just feel i wanted to give my two cents but leave it to the pros to decide. just no Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy or Catwoman. And no RObin or else we lose Bale.
July 5th, 2008 at 6:48 am
The Penguin is a dinky villian, one of the worst in the comics. I honestly believe that Sacha Baron Cohen could pull off the Riddler like Jim Carry did before.
July 7th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
SPOILER ALERT: It’s going to Two-Face and (gasp) Catwoman…Selena Kyle will be the love interest with a (gasp) preganacy–and that will end the series!
Sorry if I shot anyone’s ballons out of the sky…but I have an insider…YEAH–I KNOW A GUY!
July 9th, 2008 at 1:27 am
This is my list of choices for Batman villains:
Joker: Heath Ledger (R.I.P)
Two - Face: Aaron Eckhart
Riddler: David Hyde - Pierce
Penguin: Philip Seymour - Hoffman
Catwoman: Angelina Jolie
Scarecrow: Cillian Murphy
Mr. Freeze: TBA
Bane: Dwayne ” The Rock” Johnston
Poison Ivy: Scarlet Johanssen
July 10th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
perfect villains cast list continued:
Harley Quinn: Britney Murphy
Clay - Face: Michael Chiklis
Mr. Freeze - Hugo Weaving (after much hard thinking)
Mr. Zsasz - Andy Serkis
Firefly - Aaron Stanford (remember Pyro in X2?)
those are all I can think of at the moment, Peace.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:19 am
I’ll make another motion for Crispin Glover. A few ’shrooms and he’d put forth a performance twisted quite differently than Ledger’s.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:51 am
I’m shocked & dismayed, that no one has mentioned Guy Pearce as the Riddler, or even a possible a recast Joker. Look @ his gaunt, haggard and handsome face, & he’s worked w/ Nolan in Momento.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:55 am
How about two-face and BANE for the third?
July 14th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I’m shocked & dismayed, that no one has mentioned Guy Pearce, as the Riddler, or even a possible a recast Joker. Look @ his gaunt, haggard and handsome face, & he’s worked w/ Nolan in Momento.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Hopefully the batman franchise will pass beyond 3 films with nolan and keep its credibility unlike bm forever/bm & robin. All the villains have there own unique characters..riddler is insane whereas joker is a calculated psychopath. They should run a series of movies in line with the comics, and i think they should make robin a part of it at some point, and kill him off with (gasp) someone else doing the joker (it will never be the same without ledger but that IS how the story went). As for the next film we defo have 2 face, and the possibility of scarecrow, but who knows about rusty griswold….so chill out for a while….wait 3 years til you have some slightly tangible evidence to debate the 3rd (and 4th movies)…for christ sake u aint seen TDK yet!! so in the mean time go visit
http://WWW.PEACHPARADE.COM
July 15th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
People have to remember hat cris nolan said that here are certain villains that he can’t and won’t use in his films because they don’t fit the type of film he’s created. So disregard alot of the penguin and catwoman rumors.
As far as the riddler goes, he’s been said to be considered one of the next villains but…I think he probably won’t be like the riddler we’ve grown to know. He’ll have a small supporting role or at least a roll like the scarecrow did in “BEGINS”.
BUT don’t forget there are so many other villains to choose from that are cooler than the classic villains we know out there like Black Mask, Hush ,Dr. Hugo Stange , Talia Guhl which are all cool and more realistic villains.
Ironically as much as ppl hate Burton’s films his stylistic approach could fit almost every weird villain you could think of like the ventriloquist, clayface and killer croc. Right or wrong
July 16th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Joe Pesci for The Penguin
July 16th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
My dream cast:
Riddler-Jude Law,David Hyde Pierce,David Tennant, and yes “rogerscorpion” Guy Pierce.
Joker - Crispin Glover
Penguin-Bob Haskins or Joe Pesci
Lady Shiva-Carrie Anne Moss
Catwoman-Kate Beckinsale
Mr. Freeze-Hugo Weaving
Bane-The Rock
Mad Hatter-Martin Short
Man-Bat:Guy Pierce
Ben Kinglsey or Patrick Stewart - Clock King or the Ventriloquist
The List and rogerscorpion hit the nail on the head with cast possibilities
July 17th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
remember how bad the old batman movies sucked. lets not have that happen by bringing catwoman and mr freeze back. As for the Riddler i think it will still be anthony michael hall. There will be a twist in the end of this movie. The team up of two face and riddler sucked in the 90s but i think they will make the riddler badass please dont bring any other villains into it besides those two and the penguin. how bout Bob Hoskins as the penguin….bad ass.
July 17th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
david hyde peirce cmon think….
July 17th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
david hyde pierce would not be good
July 18th, 2008 at 5:25 am
i just saw the dark knight and there’s no way in my mind that anyone will compare to the performance heath ledger gave. i would think it an injustice to the fans and the series to try and put someone in heath’s place as the joker..his performance was amazing and if not oscar worthy so i would leave it alone and focus on another villian.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:32 am
As far as Catwoman goes i think Kate Beckinsale would be the best fit for that role.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:09 am
For the third film I guess we’ll have the Riddler, and Two-Face, as far as The Joker goes, as much as I loved Heath Ledger’s performance as the Joker, I think there are actors out there who could do just as good a job, right now no one wants to see anyone else play the Joker, so I don’t think the Joker will be in the third film, if there is a fourth film the Joker could return, by then I think more people would be open to the idea of another actor playing the Joker. Heath would want someone else to get a chance to play the Joker, just as he was given the chance. I remember when Heath was first announced to play the Joker, some fans thought he wouldn’t be anygood, and that Heath would never be able to top Jack Nicholson’s Joker, Heath proved them all wrong. Anyway Go see The Dark Knight if you haven’t seen it. And if you have seen it, well go see it again. It’s not just a movie, it’s an event.
RIP Heath Ledger
July 20th, 2008 at 12:09 am
The Dark Knight Was Amazing! Heath did a great job as the joker. For sure topped Jack’s Joker by far. Two-Face was well played by Aaron. Christian=Batman 1000%. For the next film, Riddler and Two-face would be great. As for the character of the Joker, I think it would be best for his return after the third film.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:42 am
Umm Joshua Harto Is playing “The Riddler” in the TDK sequel. He is Mr. Reese In TDK.
Get it???
Mr.Reese=Mysteries
July 20th, 2008 at 5:50 am
I have seen The Dark Knight 3 times now, awesome movie, Heath Ledger does such an awesome job as The Joker, good on him. Two-Face looked awesome in this as well. I hope the next villain they choose someone good. Um i dont think they could re-do The Penguin after Danny Devito awesome performance in Batman Returns, but we will have to see aye
July 20th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Well,A) I just came home from the Dark Knight & I think that Chris Nolan will do the smart thing and NOT recast the Joker because Heath Ledger, God rest his soul, has just delivered a performance the likes of which cannot be equalled by any other actor. B) When is agonystes going to get it into his head that David Hyde - Pierce is the obvious choice for the Riddler?
July 20th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Im Not sure but I dont believe that two face died from that fall. i mean batman was shot and survied that fall so possibillities are there…What if they hid two face somewhere and let everone think he was dead and by doing that it just made him more crazy. idk i just really like two face and would like to see more of him. im going too throw out some villians names i think christopher nolan could bring to life with the realism he brought to scare crow and the joker. Riddler. Penguin. Bane. Catwoman. poison ivy. the red claw. And even mr freeze. I would love to see how real and dark he can twist theses characters from campy characters to relevant and more believable realness…I cant wait to see whats next. Tell me what you think.
July 21st, 2008 at 12:00 am
If we could get Russell Brand to act, I reckon he’d make a brilliant Riddler… haha
I want to see a femme fatale 3-quel….
Poion Ivy, Catwoman and Harley-Quinn…
Just don’t give the Catwoman role to Halle though…
Or maybe a movie of the Anti-Batman (Azrael)… That would be good…. could also work as a nice lead-in to a Knightfall series of movies…
July 21st, 2008 at 12:33 am
Actually, I hope neither the Riddler nor the Penguin appears in the 3rd film. Bring on someone new please! I want to see some creativity!
July 21st, 2008 at 6:35 am
Matthew Lillard as the Joker or the Riddler
July 21st, 2008 at 6:37 am
Matthew Lillard as the Joker or as the Riddler
July 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
I have though about this a lot. I saw TDK the day it opened. Ledger’s Joker was awesome. Its up there with Lecture from SOTL. I went through several of the names listed above as a possibel recast for the Joker. As for Crispin Glover, I just can’t see George McFly taking over. Even creepy thin man was just stupid.. Then I saw Ben Foster. Holy Crap.. Foster would be a perfect choice. Look at his roles The stranger from 30 Days of Night, The Psycho from The Hostage, Jake Masurski from Alpha Dog. He’s perfect. He’s got that same raspy smoker voice. All we need is to see is if he can do the Joker laugh.– I personally don’t want to see Riddler, Freeze, Penguin, or Catwomen. Killer Croc, Clay Face, or bring back Two-Face. Those other Characters are too associated with the first movies. You may as well bring back Prince too.. Just make Foster the Joker and sprinkle in some minor villins, have Batman win his good name back and push on to Batman Superman….
July 21st, 2008 at 3:52 pm
How about the Third Installment sets us up for a Birds of Prey flick with Huntress making an appearance as a villain. She waffles enough anyway, so why not?
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:57 am
After seeing TDK I agree that it will be difficult for anyone to do the Joker after Heath’s performance but as far as looks go I think Matt is right that Ben Foster would be a good choice. In regards to future villains my vote is for Harley Quinn since she is inexorably connected to Joker. She would be perfect and I would cast possibly Reese Whitherspoon. The other reason I think HQ would be a good choice is because it would lead well into Birds of Prey. Mia Sara played HQ in the series so I don’t think it would be good to have her reprise her role, but she has the look.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:10 am
Another suggestion for Harley Quinn…Natalie Portman.
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
I think Ben foster looks like the Riddler from the comics and the animated series. As far as the recating of the Joker, we don’t even know if Heath would have done the role agian he did say it made it hard to sleep and made him depressed. I think with two-face and joker the riddler will be a minor role, and look for Harley Quinn, Brittney Murpht is the only name to come to mind. Also possible actors for the joker is: Jonny depp, Paul Bettany rumor has it he wanted th role to begin with and my favorite is Michael C. Hall from Dexter he would be great.
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:26 pm
SPOILER
I doubt two-face will be back.
I have to agree with agonystes. I picked up on Josh Harto (Mr. Reese) as being set up to play the Riddler in the next installment. He is a disgruntled Wayne Enterprises employee and he has figured out Batman’s secret identity. Plus he has the look. But if you use that logic then Mike Engel (Mr. E, get it Mystery) could also be the riddler. As for the Joker, the filmmakers left us hanging (no pun intended) to the Joker’s fate. He’s got to come back, there are plenty of good actors out there that could do justice for us fans and Heath alike. examples, Johnny Depp(bc Joker in TDK is kinda Jack Sparrowish), Brad Pitt (i mean have u seen Snatch), Colin Farrel(sticking with Nolan casting non-Americans) or so on and so. If we get a 3rd, i think it will be Scarecrow, Riddler and Joker.
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:15 am
I think Poison Ivy could be casted in a very real world role. Imagine her without these powers to make vines move. Her lips are only deadly because she puts poison on them as her calling. Her nickname is poison Ivy due to her field of work. Obviously she works as a biologist with plants. She is first attempting to help mankind with her research and something happens…….its possible
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
SPOILER:
I think Johnny Depp is too big name and people will be more critical than they will a more…shall we say B-List actor. As for the secondary villain I don’t believe that they are going to use any one from the first 4 Batman movies. What about Man-Bat…with all of the Batman Wanna-Be’s running around Gotham perhaps one of them is Man-Bat. Also I agree with kevlar that scarecrow will be back since he made an ever so brief appearance in TDK. Again going back to my desire to see Harley Quinn enter the picture she could release him and Mr. J (as Harley calls the Joker) from Arkham as being “cured” since she is also the Arkham quack. At least that’s what I would do if I were writing it.
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
What about Guy Pierce as Joker? Just came across a mention of him and thought of his performance in Memento and how incredible he pulls off the crazy paranoid thing. Kinda got the look too.
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I can see them doing riddler or penguin for the next movie. please dont replace joker. move on to the next villian. but who would play the riddler? who would play the penguin? im looking towards jack black as the penguin.lol the riddler is still a question for me.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:40 am
“Batman” does have a point. Matthew Lillard can play a really great physco. Anyone remember Scream? He was funny and crazy at the same time great actor for a part like the Joker. He’s not too “A-list” either. Would enjoy to see what kinda Joker he can make.
July 24th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
How about Michael C. Hall from “Dexter”, like said previously. Johnny Depp would be a good choice… he’s versatile and i hardly think he could mess up the role… besides i heard they used him to finish heaths last film “the imaginarium…”. Or why not use the dude from “Hannibal Rising” Gaspard Ulliel? He played a dark role in that movie, plus hes looks like heath only younger?
July 24th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
hmm…i think two-face role she end with TDK i dont see that filling up an entire film and keeping the audience hooked as The Joker did..i think how Harvey Dent’s role and Two-face quick burnout was just perfect..lets move on 2 a new villian..Maybe riddler or hmm…Harley Quinn???? that could be fun
July 25th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Its simple.
Guy Pierce as Riddler.
Bob Hoskins as Penguin (arms dealer).
The Jokers theme was Anarchy.
The Riddlers theme should be style. He dresses fancy, he has suave and style, and he wants to be the new hero of gotham. He promises to find out who Wayne is. He has all the answers to all the questions.
Hes sophisticated, and is followed around by beautiful women. Gotham aches for him to save the day since Batman is wanted for murder. He isn’t afraid to take off his mask.
He isn’t known as The Ridder. He is an Enigma. He prides himself on his ego, intelligence, and beauty.
A pretty boy and a genius who saves Gotham so he can uphold his perfect image until finally he turns everyone on the Mayor so he himself can become ruler.
This is just the beginning.
July 25th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
You guys have seen 2 Nolan Batmans and you still dont fucking get it do you?
Theres no magic powers. Theres no bullshit characters with bad mainstream actors. Theres no angelina jolie or judd law.
This is a real world and a living city he created.
You wont see poison ivy or bane or any of those characters that would be in a michael bay movie.
WATCH THE DAMN MOVIES AGAIN CAUSE YOU ARENT GETTING IT. Nolan will not submit to bullshit like this. There will always be a deeper message and a real world scenario behind the characters.
Now lets talk Mr. Freeze. Poorly done in the movies so far. But what if his deep sense of longing and sadness over his wifes tradgedy is explored? A serious take on curing cancer.
If you ask me, he and The Riddler could be great three demensional characters. Not nessecarily villains…but men with a drive and purpose to a goal. Saving his wife through any means nessecary.
And The Riddler should be as far from The Joker as possible. Style and suave. A deep care for his image and personal hygene.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
I agree with the posts that the Riddler should be suave and sophisticated. Maybe a little off the comics, but I think the Riddler should be very similar to Bruce Wayne/Batman. Picture…Edward Nashton, 2nd wealthiest man in Gotham, former employee at Wayne Enterprises, worked his way up to power creating a company called the Enigma Corporation. Aggressive CEO by day, and a mastermind criminal at night (for no gain except to compete with Batman)
Sorta an “anything you can do, I can do better” concept. Nashton competes to be better than Bruce Wayne by becoming the wealthiest in Gotham and competes with Batman as the Riddler to see who’s smarter, the criminal or the detective.
Maybe even the Riddler has a similar “R&D” department as Batman, where he uses his unlimited wealth to create “products” just like Wayne Enterprises. Maybe the Riddler uses similar technologies that his company has developed in order to perpetrate crimes, instead of solving them like Batman.
oh…and as far as leaving clues as not realistic? Well, the Riddler in some of the comics was a victim of OCD, and couldn’t help himself from leaving clues. Maybe in Nolan’s realistic world, the OCD could be explored, showing how excessive OCD can turn you into something you can’t control unless you are in full control, regardless of what means you take to gain that control. Maybe the OCD is what pushed the competitive drive in the Riddler.
Riddler vs Batman could be essentially about perverted competition, and the extreme means one will take to be number 1. How much more realistic can you be? Happens in the business world, happens in the sporting world, happens everywhere.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
If Nolan had a cameo for Scarecrow in the “Dark Knight”, then it’s a sure thing he was planning on having the Joker around in some capacity for the next installment. Maybe not as a main villain, but probably as an inmate at Arkham where Batman or the authorities would interrogate him (kinda like Agent Sterling and Hannibal Lector in “Silence of the Lambs”). If they were planning on doing something along those lines, I don’t think they should throw it all away on account of Heath Ledger’s passing. Ledger was someone who cared about the parts he played and I’m sure he would want to see the character continued.
While Ledger’s performance was awesome, let’s give some credit to the production value, storyline, and director for the performance. Let us also not lose sight of the fact that the Joker character itself is one of the greatest villains of pop culture. The role allows one to ditch all inhibitions and, in the hands of a skilled actor, magic can happen, as it did with Ledger’s take. However, I truly don’t believe Legder was the only skilled actor out there who can pull off the Joker. Many greeted the initial casting of Ledger with skepticism and scorn — now many are saying he’s only possible Joker. Both are wrong. The Joker can be recasted.
And for those who noticed similiarities between Johnny Depp’s “Captain Jack Sparrow” and Ledger’s Joker, it should be noted that both looked to rock stars for their inspiration. Depp based Captain Jack off of Keith Richards and Ledger’s Joker was in part inspired by Johnny Rotten. I think Johnny Depp could work as a recast for the Joker — or the Riddler, or even the Mad Hatter. Depp is an actor that’s on par with Ledger’s ability and would be great in Nolan’s Batman universe.
July 28th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Ledgers performance was great and it would be hard to replace but it can be done. Ben Foster was a good idea, he has a dark side about him. As for the Riddler, I think Adrien Brody will be great. He has the look and the acting ability to bring somthing new to the table.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:12 am
Definitely Edward Norton as the Riddler. They share the same first name, for crying out loud!
The key component of Nolan’s casting strategy is that these actors could do Macbeth as easily as they did TDK. Norton would bring that same manic energy that he tricked us all with in Primal Fear.
He scares me; I LIKE being scared. I don’t want a cartoon character to be imported into Nolan’s gritty world.
NORTON!
July 30th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
james franco could be a possibility as joker he shares features with ledger
July 30th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
james franco (spider mans harry osbourne)would fit the charcter of ledgers joker. he and ledger share similar facial features
July 31st, 2008 at 9:09 am
Originally I was all against Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, etc, because they are too cartoony,campy and/or over used. But when I think about the Joker and how historically he was exactly those things and then I think about what they turned him into for TDK I have to wonder what they might be able to twist those very characters into. However I’m still all for Harley Quinn being the next side villain along side the Joker. Now that the Scarecrow is no longer the resident psychiatrist at Arkham they’ve made room for H.Q. to step up and get the Joker out. They may just add more than one character to the roster which would be great for the Riddler. I agree with above statements saying that a fresh take on this character would be cool, he has so much potential. I think they are just going to keep adding villains that just show up briefly like Scarecrow did in TDK to show that Gotham is crawling with crazies from the big Arkham break out at the end of Batman Begins.
August 1st, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Joker went hard in dark knight maybe dats tha only reason people went to go see dark knight if i was them i would have joker and two face back but this time another villian
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August 2nd, 2008 at 3:20 am
While people talk up Hugo Weaving for E Nigma (due, no doubt, to his work in genre work, like ‘The Matrix’), has anyone considered Weaving’s co-star, from Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, Guy Pearce? He’s quite gauntly attractive & starred in Nolan’s ‘Memento’.
Think outside the genre.
I’d like to see Patrick Stewart as Mr. Freeze, since he was originally supposed, I hear, to play him, until Ah-nuld expressed interest. Stewart’d have been much better.
Mickey Rourke would be good as Bane or Killer Croc. He’s can be brutal & still act. See ‘Sin City’. Ron Perlman, also.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
its so insane how perfect CRISPIN GLOVER would be for Riddler. He looks and akts exactly like him. i think it would be cool if Harley got a crush on him and started stalking him. i would love love love love love love love love love love love to see CRISPIN GLOVER as the Riddler. it makes perfect sense. he is sauve and sophistocated just look at the comics its HIM.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
I think it is about 10 years too late to cast Crispin Glover for the role (why should the riddler be a decade older than Batman?) and it seems to me as though the whole Coleman Reese story arc in the Dark Knight was all a semi-subtle Riddler origin story worked right into the movie.
If this is the case, just let Joshua Harto keep the role. If Nolan had him pegged this early as an actor that could pull it off then trust that he can do it. Not all of the jobs in all Hollywood movies need to go to the same 5 actors.
I would like to see Riddler and Catwoman working together though– that could be fun. It would reverse the typical gender roles of the brains and the brawn of the operation.
August 5th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
The best person for the Riddler is Matthew Lillard! ?
August 6th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
The next villain should be The Ventriloquist . Type “The Ventriloquist” on wikepedia and you would immediately realize why he would be perfect for Nolan to recreate. It said that multiple characters took the role of The Ventriloquist, which included two men and a women. The two men should be played by Patrick Stewart (Patrick Stewart being Wesker) and Eric Bana while the woman sould be played by Katherine Heigl. The Ventriloquist’s bodygaurd Rhino should be played by Benicio Del Toro and Rhino’s sister should be played by Julia Stiles. Meanwhile, if the Riddler was the cillain instead, he should be played by Bruce Willis.
August 9th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
David Tennant as The Riddler would be so fantastic.
He plays the 10th Doctor on Doctor Who, he was also Barty Crouch Jr. in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
He is nuts and crazy and not too camp.
August 10th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
ya know, i dont think he really ment what se said, and wehn i say that i mean i dont believe he really ment he wanted somone so try and redo the joker and attempt to outdo heath, because from what ive read everyone including oldman has great respect for heath, and as for the riddler, i think deep would be great, for anyone who thinks of jack sparrow wen they hear his name, i did the same thing at first, then i looked at all his rolles, just think of mabie, a batman setting, and mabie, a mixture of his rolls in once upon a time in mexico, and secret window, after that thought, keep in mind hes a increddible actor, deffinatly at the calliber of heath ledger and christian bale, and TDK was awesome, saw it at midnight, then saw it 2 times after
August 11th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Johnny Depp as the riddler?! i think that he is going to be awesome and will be as good as if not better than heath ledger. Johnny Depp would give a certain spark to the character that he gives to all the characters he takes on in movies!i have seen all johnny depp’s movies ,interviews,and behind the scenes of most of all his movies!I mean if a 28 year old man could play a character as sinister as joker and make him appear to be almost real than who’s to say that Johnny Depp cant be the riddler?(No offense on heath)I have always liked johnny Depp as an actor but not until this year did i begin to learn about the man behind movies and from what i know about the man’s real life i can say truthfully that he will make a perfect riddler!
written by a 15 year old girl hoping to go into film making!
August 12th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Look at all these rumors just flying around and the most recent Batman movie hasn’t even made the transition to the dollar theater yet. Slow down people, you’ve got at least a whole year before they start making these decisions.
Joker should be left in Arkham to rot. Heath Ledger’s performance was intense and amazing. Honestly, could it be reproduced? I don’t think it would be fair to whatever actor got the call. Let him alone.
Riddler should be in the next movie. He’s the most likely of the main villains left to score a role in the next movie.
Catwoman could be involved, but I still have the image of that horrible movie in my head. Let’s wait on her.
Penguin would be a nice addition IF and only IF there is no Tim Burton Penguin anywhere to be found. Penguin as a mobster sounds like a plan, but they willl need a good storyline for it work.
Harley Quinn really should be included only with the Joker and as I stated before the Joker (as much as I love him and want him back) really should be laid to rest with Heath. That’s just my opinion.
However, if Joker should reappear I see him siding with Riddler/Penguin/insert villain here but not being able to function as a unit and turning on them at some point which could be an interesting storyline.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:16 am
Does anyone remember Black Mask?…It doesnt have to have anything to do with Robin to make him an incredible villian in the next movie.
Also Zsasz was already in Batman begins for a split moment…Could he still be out there somewhere?
I dunno just a thought.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:34 am
To all of you suggesting who should be in the next Batman film, why dont you make your own movie and cast your favorite actors and villains yourself? Leave it to the producers to decide!
August 13th, 2008 at 10:11 am
@ keniwa:
Because when we leave casting decisions up to producers, they tend to put Chris O’Donnell in a Robin mask, Kevin Costner in Lincolnshire green, Tom Cruise in fangs, John Wayne in a Mongol skullcap, Ted Danson in WWII army fatigues, Colin Farrell in a toga, Orlando Bloom in a Templar’s cross, Keira Knightley in bounty hunter getup, Denise Richards in physicist/geek glasses, Keanu Reeves in anything besides the Matrix, and Jessica Alba in…nothing at all.
We debate these actors because we are now part of the content production process, and we want our voices heard, dammit. Never another Richard Pryor as a Supervillain!!
PS: EDWARD NORTON/NYGMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 16th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I will say it one more time & maybe you lot will all understand: David Hyde Pierce is the obvious Riddler. Not Johnny Depp, not Edward fucking Norton, DAVID HYDE PIERCE!
August 21st, 2008 at 7:13 pm
ok mr. music man let me geuss you are some 45 year old man or how eva old in you room livin at your moms house making sucky comments about other peoples opinions am i right at all?well i dont care! Like hope persen says if we are gonna spend the money to see the movie or even think about buying dont you think that you would want who you suggested in it ? Its our opinions and it is a free contry so if we say we want johhny depp or any one else to play a charater in a batman movie or any other than who are you people to tell me what I should do with my opinions i can tell you music man what i think about yours but i wont cause i dont wanna be too rude(Like you)!
thank you good night!
“WE WANT OUR VOICES HEARD DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!” I totaly agree! hope persen :) thumbs up!!
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
The thing about the Riddler that I’ve gathered from my many years of reading his stories is that he is both a primitive crook and a complex genius at the same time. His methods are MUCH more about trapping other people in his hugely complicated world of riddles than they are about stealing or hurting anyone. He seems to derive a sort-of pleasure, even a sexual pleasure, from controlling people. If you want a good example of this, read ‘Dark Knight, Dark City’ which is also “Batman’ 452-454. The only actor who I feel could even come close to this sort of sensibility is Casey Affleck. After seeing his performance in ‘The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford’ I can hardly imagine what he is capable of.
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Also, one more thing, I really don’t think that the Riddler should even be in the next movie. They’re obviously setting up a Batman-on-the-run situation and the best villains for that scenario are: Catwoman (obvious), Clayface (my personal choise but it would be hard), and Killer Croc (please for the love of god no). Save the Riddler and Penguin for number four!
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:53 am
Hey I just gonna put it out there that many of these characters (penguin,mr freeze etc) will be too hard to create in this much more ‘realistic’ interpretation…also I think the point of killing two-face at the end of tdk was so that he would stay dead, not make a surprise reappearance, as much as I love two face as a villain it think the point of his demise was to show that not all is neatly wrapped up an easily judged as right or wrong…LOVED that it was the joker who turned him cooky tho, briliant! Having seen tdk 5 times(soon to be 6) I know just how frigging sweet Heath ledgers preformance as the joker is, but honestly, there is no way in hell they can just leave him rotting in arkham for the rest of his life…the man who (in the comics) crippled bat girl, killed the second robin and almost sent gordon round the twist? Zif’! LONG LIVE THE JOKER!!! Batman just would not be the same without him. I’m actually writing and drawing up my own graphic novel of Harley Quinn being lured into madness by the joker and helping him escape the asylum, I reckon that would be a mad sequel! On the subject of the riddler, obviously everyone has their own personal favorite, so my two cents go’s to the incredible acting ability (not to mention incredible hottness!!!!!!!) of David Tennant, anyone seen ‘taking over the asylum’? Or him playing barty crouch jr in harry potter? Or even doctor who itself…in all of these he has shown great skill in the ability to blend the perfect amounts of quirky irrisistible and insanity…which is just what the doctor ordered ( no pun intended) if they want to air out the riddler and breathe new life into the role, nothing against jim Carey. All I know is that after the absolute brilliance of tdk, I think we can trust them to make at least fairly good desicions, just bring back the joker okay? I for one know that I will be devastated if they dont, and i’m pretty sure Heath Ledger would have wanted the joker to go on… Bring on David Tennant!! Oh, one last thing…I will scream if angelina jolie becomes catwoman, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth…portman perhaps?
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:54 am
well i only say that johnny depp should be the riddler because i love the way he acts but i completly respect your opinion.i have never heard of the actor you speak of but he were to play in the next movie im sure he would a great job.i still say that no one can beat heath ledger at the joker though!
“WE WANT OUR VOICES HEARD!!!”
film girl
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
heath ledger was freakin awsum, yesh, but the joker is batmans ARCH nemisis,.. all the other ones are jst like, bleh, but the JOKER..! u hafta hav him.. and they so set it up for hmi to be brought bak, i mean… thats wat happens wen an unstopable force meet an immovable object… :P i think jonny dep should become the joker.. hes the only one on par wit heathy acting abilities! and david tennant would make a great riddler.. oh and um Star wars queen… u rule!!! soz bout not makin it 6 times tho, nxt week.. def
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:47 pm
LONG LIVE THE CLOWN PRINCE OF CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!! I reckon Jhonny Depp could do an awesome Joker, I agree he’s rly the only one talented enough to carry on the part, but there are others out there!
August 25th, 2008 at 1:23 am
Touche, Deppluva. Touche. My apologies for seeming like some sort of opinionated prick. Quite frankly, I really can’t see either Johnny Depp or Edward Norton in the Riddler mantle because they just don’t seem right. DHP just seems appropriate.
August 25th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
im sorry music man i was sorta rude wasnt i i was mad that night people were downin me all night that night(not here in real life) ANY WAY From what i have studied on the man, Johnny depp is ver y eqipped to play riddler but as “Star warz queen ” says there are others out there and i belive that alot of other actors have the right qualities for the roles.But if you will for a min think about what jim carry looked like as the joke with the orange hair and the green suit (NOT THE TIGHTS THE SUIT) Now think about johnny depp’s role as wonka and add the two together but put johnny with short orange hair and a green suit but the wonka look can you see it?I realy dont think he could play the joker though!(i cant belive im saying that too lol)but its true he couldn’t pull off the heath look to me.well once again sorry i was a prick too cant wait for a reply bye bye
A 15 year old girl hoping to go into film making for a career!
August 25th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
sorry i meant jim as the riddler
August 25th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
i hate this site they cut half the words out of what ur tryin to say
August 25th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
SORRY AGAIN MUSIC MAN LOL
August 25th, 2008 at 6:52 pm