It amazes and terrifies me that so few filmmakers are as open, interested and engaged in the torrent phenomena as director John August. You might remember that earlier this month we reported on August’s curious announcement to fans that his indie film (and /Film favorite), The Nines, was available for illegal download online via Bit Torrent and sites like Mininova. He seemed to express that he wouldn’t hold a grudge if you saw his film that way. Well, August has posted twice more on the topic on his personal blog, and he now attributes a huge surge for The Nines on IMDB’s MOVIEmeter (which measures movie search trends) from 1,539 all the way to 11 to its exposure via the Internet’s torrents.
You don’t see a lot, actually any, directors making the correlation between illegal torrent leaks of their films, their films’ popularity and consumer interest, but August has voiced up. And it’s clear that August has received a lot of flack for doing so, as he’s extended on his prior statements and countered others’ directed at him in another blog entry.
I’m not bouncy with joy over my movie getting torrented, but I think it’s a stretch to equate unlawful downloading with traditional theft. As many commenters have pointed out, The Nines isn’t available in any legal form in many countries around the world, nor will it be in any foreseeable time frame. So I have a hard time arguing that a reader in Germany should pay for the movie when there’s no way he could.
August goes on to say that he has far less tolerance for viewers who download a film that is openly available to them, be it on DVD or theatrically, but even then, he seems to think that downloading his film is less harmful than buying a bootleg of it on the streets of New York, referring to the latter as “organized crime” and torrent sites as merely “far less noble.” Moreover, he says that Hollywood should lay off the downloaders and lay on an innovative solution.
I’d steer the legal machinery towards stopping the true black market - counterfeit discs and camcorder specials - and spend more time coming up with legitimate, convenient alternatives to the torrents, so that’s it’s not any more difficult to find and download a movie legally. Apple’s new rental deal with the studios sounds promising. That and a dozen other efforts could make the market competitive, which will be better for everyone.
But where August takes a next step in becoming a unique voice on this subject is with the following statement…
One of the things I hope to do with The Nines - sometime after the writers’ strike, when I can call Sony again - is work with them to release a low-res version of all the source material for The Nines, so budding filmmakers can try their hand at cutting (and re-cutting) a real feature. So I’m watching this first wave of torrents carefully, hoping the people who are downloading The Nines are doing it because they love movies, and not because they want to screw over some mythical The Man. Because to a very large degree, I am The Man in this case.
Yes! This is the kind of forward-thinking the industry needs and props to August for doing it for them. I cannot express enough how frustrated I am watching Hollywood slowly but surely follow the same “all defense all the time” path as the music industry when it comes to ignoring downloading as the future (in favor of Blue Ray), going after torrent communities and prosecuting downloaders, and practicing what basically equates to an erred philosophy on human beings’ relationship and instincts in regards to sharing information.
The fact that 99 percent of all moviegoers around the world were put in the position of waiting to see The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford, an Oscar-caliber film barely released theatrically in America last September, until it arrived on DVD five or more months (or years) later, or illegally downloading a pristine DVD screener a month ago, burning it to a DVD-R, and watching it in their home with friends or loved ones is preposterous. I have a separate post about this in the works, but I can’t help but notice how many more comments on /Film and other sites are now referring to a combination of smaller, less intriguing and under-distributed movies as “[illegal] download only” and “maybe I’ll download it to see what the fuss is about.” And it’s not just the “nerds, criminals, derelicts and college students” as the music industry used to label those who first adopted Napster.
As for whether illegal torrents can actually make films more popular, to me this is a no-brainer. Yes. They Can. In a global marketplace, we should all be able to view movies on demand via the Internet at the same time. And more and more, we can, except that it’s not Hollywood and the big corporations that are promoting, initiating, investing, improving and expanding this means of populist, and incredibly lucrative, distribution. It’s the people, whatever you think of “the people.” You can go the Daniel Plainview these people route if you want, but I’m leaving that mindset to the antiquated oil set.
Here is the aforementioned IMBD MOVIEmeter for The Nines. August attributes the huge surge in January in terms of movie searches to the film’s leak on torrents this month.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
“Director” John August? Is the writing profession worth so little to you? August is clearly a capable filmmaker — both as a writer and a director — but, you’re doing a disservice to both his career and his vocation by labeling him simply a “Director.” How about “Writer-Director?” Is that too many letters? Or is writing just that unimportant? And what if he hadn’t directed this movie? Would he even get a mention on your site?
January 27th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
@albo
Yeah dude, the writing profession means so little to me that I went to university for it and make my living doing it, via creative writing and journalism. Thanks for contributing to the discourse here. Great point.
January 27th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Wow, that’s…amazingly logical of him. I agree 100% with August, and I hope (in vain) that the film industry will take a hint from his point of view.
And Albo, chill. Many directors also write, but they are better known for being directors because it is an intensive job that’s extremely tied in with the finished film that we all go to see. Writers are absolutely vital to the industry, but I think you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:45 am
Great post, I couldn’t agree more!
January 28th, 2008 at 2:11 am
August is totally right on. Especially for people who live in markets that studios DONT present their small indie/limited theatrically to local theaters.
There should be more encouragement for an alternative or to embrace torrent sites. The important part for a film is finding the right audience…Evil Dead, Donnie Darko, Blade Runner for example. Films get tossed around and become a major buzz with audiences years later and generate money through word of mouth.
For torrent sites, if used to just see films and not what August calls stiffing “The Man” than it could be an important factor to how a film does on home video and rental release.
January 28th, 2008 at 8:39 am
BTW Jesse James will be out on DVD and Blu-Ray on Feb 5th and HD DVD a few weeks later (who cares about HD DVD at this point though).
So people can wait less than 2 weeks to see the best film of the year.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:28 am
I dunno. I think you give him too much credit for what is essentially very smart self-promotion.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I dunno…I saw The Nines and thought it was pretty much one of the worst movies ever. Movies like that SHOULD be free.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:45 am
This just in!! John August offers to pay you a dollar to watch The Nines!
(j/k I think’s he very talented).
January 28th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I download torrents almost daily. Why? Because 90% of the films I’m interested in are NEVER released in a theater within 45 miles of my home. So, crucify me for wanting to watch good, quality films?
My best examples currently would have to be Gone Baby Gone and the aforementioned The Assassination of Jesse James… I downloaded the dvd screener torrents of both of these films, and was absolutely enthralled by both. While AoJJ won’t be out for awhile, I’ll most certainly be purchasing a DVD copy of Gone Baby Gone–simply for posterity’s sake. The quality of the screener isn’t worth burning to DVD and watching on a regular television. So, I watch these films on my computer, and if they’re great, I usually go out and buy the DVD when it’s released.
The only film I’ve ever willingly traveled more than 30 minutes to see was There Will be Blood, and I drove 2.5 hours to see it. Was worth every minute of the drive, too.
January 28th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Larry:
The DVD (and Blu-Ray) for Jesse James will be out on Feb 5th… 15 days from now, which is actually 1 week before Gone Baby Gone…
January 28th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
@ Everyone
Cool comments. This is a topic where the studios and filmmakers are definitely checking out what you say here. We’ll have another post on this topic shortly.
Regarding Jesse James, the wording was supposed to communicate the gap between The Assassination of Jesse James’s snail-like domestic release in September 2007 up until its DVD release on February 2008. A correction has been made. Thanks for pointing this out.
Take into consideration that TAOJJBTCRF will not be seen by many eyes around the world for a great deal longer after February. There are aspiring filmmakers in every country, and the Internet has provided us with a way to finally connect them to many of the best films that they could never see otherwise. Hollywood should take advantage. We all should.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Hunter: i am looking forward to your story on the sorry release for ‘jesse james’, as i am one of the disappointed people who waited forever to see it, only to have it released far away from where i live, and only for a couple weeks. there will be blood got a weak release as well. i’m not sure on where i stand on torrenting, but better marketing for stellar films has to become a MAJOR issue soon! meanwhile, i can always go see BRATZ or Alvin and the Chipmunks anytime, anywhere…
January 28th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
You know, I thought from the title that he was going to be in favor of illegal downloading because he’s a screenwriter and we typically see a handful of change as our residual from the DVD sales– so what would he care if people were illegally downloading it?Great post though. Very interesting ideas. Now if someone will just upload a low-rez copy of Eraserhead source material, maybe I can cut it into a movie that makes sense… Side note: Trent Reznor already does that with his albums.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I am pissed off with the current distribution model of movies. For starters we’d all benefit hugely if movie theaters were removed from the food chain almost completely. Someone will always chime in about the theatrical “experience” and all that, and that’s nonsense IMO, because unless you are exceptionally lucky and have a very good theater you can go too, the best two words to describe your average theatrical experience are “expensive misery”. I mean for starters, I’m 6′8″ with chronic back problems and having to cram myself into a theater seat for 2+ hours leaves me in agony, and I’m sorry, having to drug myself with prescription painkillers just to see a movie on a big screen seems like too high a price to pay in 99% of cases, even before you figure in the financial cost.
Glad to see Jesse James mentioned as it highlights another big bloody stupid problem. I live in a major city. Yet I can’t go and see “There Will Be Blood”, the movie I’m most eager to see right now, as it’s not playing anywhere. Unlike most movies, I’d pay to see that at the theater as I would expect it to bring in a more sensible, mature audience, and not the cellphone abusing, yammering backward ass yokels a mainstream flick would. I’d suffer the pain of the seats to see that film.
Movies like “Cloverfield” (just to pick a current film) I’ll gladly download instead. If I work in transit costs to GET to the theatre, the ticket etc… It’s cheaper to wait for the DVD. I have a very limited budget due to disability (aforementioned back problem), so I like to check a movie out BEFORE throwing my dollars at it. If, say, “Cloverfield” rocks, then I’ll buy the DVD. My DVD collection (300 or so disks), I’d estimate a quarter are movies I would never have bought had torrents not enabled me to check them out first. (The list is far too long to go into here.)
If you go and buy a loaf of bread and cut it open and find dead weevils in it, mold or whatever, you take it back to the store. If you buy a stereo that sounds like crap, or a TV where the picture is fuzzy, you take it back to the store. You pay to see a movie which is truly awful (and god knows I have, and I’m sure you all have too) you’re boned and out that money for a horrible experience, and when you don’t have much money and a very limited entertainment budget, with the amount of utter garbage that comes out to bilk folk out of money, it’s a minefield.
Tim: I’m assuming you mean the “Year Zero” multitracks? I wish Trent would release more of them. All we can get is those, and two tracks off “With Teeth”. What I wouldn’t give for “The Downward Spiral” multitracks…
January 28th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Orange cinema:
Blood is still being released and is each week is being rolled out to more and more theaters so you can’t say it got a weak distribution - not at this point. Its being released on a smaller scale and slower than Juno, for example, as it should be, becuase it def targets a smaller audience (yet is a far superior film), but it should be out by you at some point, depending on your market, I would keep checking local showtimes.
UncleBoogie:
Just curious, what major city do you live in? I am interested to know what large markets this film has not reached yet.
For me, nothing beats seeing a movie in a theater. I have a pretty nice setup (1080p 50 inch Plasma, with Blu-Ray, etc) at home, but seeing a movie in a theater with the huge screen, loud sound system (yes sometimes too loud, but load nonetheless) and the great popcorn, it well worth the price of admission to see a movie. Seeing movies is still an event for me. I think I see a pretty decent amount of films in the theater each year (~40-50). I do share you sentiment with the seats in some theaters (being 6 foot 6 myself, no back problems however) but nothing beats that experience for me. That is even when I account for the a’holes on the phone or who talk during the movie. I feel the $12 for the ticket alone is worth the price to see how the movie was meant to be viewed by the director.
I mainly see movies in the 4 or 5 large stadium theaters in North NJ, NYC, and Long Island so they are clean, have comfy seats, and almost all movies are available becuase it is the largest market in the US.
In regards to downloading, if anything the smaller films that are not in wide-release are the ones that should be seen in theaters if possible becuase it will help other smaller movies get released by both large and small studios. Those studios will see an interest in those types of films if they make money (maybe not all, but enough to warrant a similar film). I know DVD sales are king for studios, but have a respectable box office total cannot hurt.
January 28th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
@Mike
I think that OC has a fantastic point about TWBB. Its roll out is incredibly slow (I think it’s actually hurting the film’s potential box office, which is $15 mill and counting - imagine what that would be if everyone around the world could pay $5 US to stream it), but there are so,so,so many people who are dying to see it and are fed up with listening to film critics say things like “well, it won’t play in the Red States.” It’s almost a culture war IMO.
There is no reason why everyone in America who wants to see this film can not see it already given the technology. Theaters hold a tremendous amount of power, sure, and I love seeing movies in a theater (especially TWBB, which I feel demands and warrants it), but the fact remains that if Hollywood doesn’t move its arse, people will download TWBB in a matter of days/weeks when it hits the Net (and it will, and it has, but only CAM versions).
Corporations do not have the power to delay innovation (especially for this long), and the market simply demands that all movies be available for download via the Net. So, more and more, all movies are; but like the music industry, Hollywood is blowing it. Instead, we get X-Box Live and stuff like that. Not to sound harsh, but Pullleeeze. Get with it. People are smarter than corporations: give the people what they want, that is a very smart mantra and always has been. Blue Ray can (and will) eat it.
January 28th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
i just got and watched this via torrent. i looked in local stores but couldn’t find it. after seeing it i think i’ll look harder. all i can say is, oh my god. [no pun intended.]
January 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I’ve recently done a translation of the subtitles for The Nines and that’s so cool to find out what the director thinks about Torrent downloaded movies. Thanks!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
@ mike:
we gotta agree to disagree here. TWBB was released very limited (less than 20) in sept 07, then more limited in dec 07, and finially made it to 3 or 4 theaters in berkeley and SF in late dec or early jan (im not sure of the specific date, but i was checking on a weekly basis). it has just now in the past week (!) made it to the larger chain theaters (regal, century etc). for a lot of people, a trip to berkeley and SF will not be worth it to see a movie - we are the exceptions because of our passion for film - but my point was that this film should have been easier for the mass public to see, in one format or another. sept to the end of jan is too long of a time IMO for one of our best films to be widely released. i’m not quite sure how you don’t see that. in the end: the awards + wide release will = only a fraction of what this film could’ve/should’ve earned. TWBB & Jesse James are the years biggest marketing f-ups, IMO. (and no, money does not mean everything, but it does show that people are exposed to the film, which is THE goal.)
January 30th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
@Hunter
The studios will not be behind that 100% for some time, becuase that means 1 person could pay and then any number of people could view it. Also, there is only about 50% of the population of the USA with broadband access, I think only 75% or so have internet access at all in the USA.
It will be a long before Blu-Ray will “eat it” due to those connectivity issues.The “new thing” is HD movies for download via Apple but it is only 720p which is being capped by apple becuase having full 1080p movies available would kill networks, cost too much in bandwidth and studios fear if the DRM is cracked then there will be HD copies of their movies available for free on the web. I am with it, and am all for innovative technology but downloading will not be ready for prime-time use for sometime.
@Orange
It may be slow, but it is still being released at more in more theaters each week, it has not hit is peek yet.
Though, I agree 100% about Jesse James, it was a huge marketing f’ up, but TWBB is not so as (and has the potential to increase tremendously). I agree that its is just now hitting more of the larger chains, but it will keep spreading out and hitting more areas, which it seems to be doing.
Also, I am 99% sure Blood was not released on any screens before the late December release (I think the 27th). It was screened in a few places, but that was all, so I do not think that is valid argument (if I am wrong please show something that states this, and I will gladly retract this statement).
I do agree with some of your points, but do feel that Paramount Vantage knows what they have here with this film and will not neglect it like WB did for James, they are behind many critically acclaimed films this year (both domestic and internationally). I am certain it will get there to smaller markets, I could be quicker, but it is ultimately up to them to choose the pace at which it is released.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:56 pm
@mike
Studios were worried that consumers would just trade and copy VHS tapes at one point too. And they though home video would kill movie theaters. Neither happened, and if anything, the underground video trade made movies more popular and ubiquitous in the culture.
Listen, unless the movie studios begin to lean on broadband providers like Comcast et al to filter downloads from suspect sites, downloading movies is the future, the near future, as in it’s already happening on a global scale with millions of people clearly satisfied with this means of distribution. People are always going to trade movies, and I agree, the Internet makes piracy easier than ever. Thing is, Hollywood needs to work with this technological change, b/c they can’t stop it or dictate how it works. This brings up issues like Net Neutrality et al.
As for Blu-Ray, I don’t think consumers will bite. They see the new horizon and it’s not DVDs. Clutter is out. It’s depressing seeing Hollywood push this format, no matter how optimum it looks. It will be a huge magic trick if they pull it off.
January 31st, 2008 at 1:05 pm
@Hunter
Well I def agree about Net Neutrality, Comcast is one of the worst offenders of that right now.
I do feel there will be a market for Blu-Ray, just like there is (and always will be) a market for actual CDs (and not just downloads from iTunes).
I, and people I know, still enjoy the feeling of “owning” the physical copy of a movie or CD, looking at the art work and linear notes, etc… People said that we have no need for physical books a few years back, but that will never happen becuase people like reading a book and actually touching the pages…
We will see how the market share increases for Blu-Ray compared to DVD, but we wont see any real improvements until 09 most likely when Paramount and Uni go back to Blu, I think once there is onyl 1 format consumers will bite.