i know Moore has done government criticism to a T but the one elephant in the room ,in my opinion, that he hasn't and should point out is the truth behind 9/11. Moore is the only filmmaker who can truly drag this issue out from the back of people's mind's onto the table.

Read your Bible Mr. Moore. God makes reference to a "man laying with another man as he would a woman" being an ultimate sin where "both will surely find death" on more than one occasion.

Gotta love these people who equate disagreement with "homophobia." Disagreeing with something doesn't mean you're afraid of it, bonehead.

Last time I checked, people with an IQ above 50 know the bible was written to control the latter.
I personally don't understand how in this day in age religion in general is not out-lawed. But then again, without it we wouldn't have fine people like president Bush would we? or all the killings, bombings and tax-free collection plates.
That's entertainment!

Steve: if you're going to quote the Bible, it's better to be able to cite directly I've found as it makes your argument seem more cogent. You're probably referring to Leviticus 18:22. See http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm. There's, of course, the debate as to whether these are ethical laws or cultic laws. We don't know the full context of the writings of Leviticus, although during the Babylonian Exile seems likely.

Moore's point (and I'm not arguing for or against) is that Jesus himself never specifically spoke about homosexuality, although you could certainly argue that Paul did. In fact, if the cultic law interpretation is held up, some would argue that passages like Matthew 15:11 and Mark 7:19 serve to abolish that cultic law.

The point is: if you're going to quote the Bible in defense of an argument, I've found it better if you don't come off just as categorical as the person you're disagreeing with.

Steve: if you're going to quote the Bible, it's better to be able to cite directly I've found as it makes your argument seem more cogent. You're probably referring to Leviticus 18:22. See www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm. There's, of course, the debate as to whether these are ethical laws or cultic laws. We don't know the full context of the writings of Leviticus, although during the Babylonian Exile seems likely.

Moore's point (and I'm not arguing for or against) is that Jesus himself never specifically spoke about homosexuality, although you could certainly argue that Paul did. In fact, if the cultic law interpretation is held up, some would argue that passages like Matthew 15:11 and Mark 7:19 serve to abolish that cultic law.

The point is: if you're going to quote the Bible in defense of an argument, I've found it better if you don't come off just as categorical as the person you're disagreeing with.

I think I need something got vomit in

Jeff, I think it was Lev 20:13 I was quoting. Now some may interpret that scripture as advocating killing homosexuals but I view it as stating they will not find eternal life in Heaven at our Lord's side. I do appreciate the other references you pointed out. True, Moore argues Jesus, Himself, did not speak out against it, but I'm assuming that is his way around the other references in the Bible.

Why is it that so many religious groups pull passages out of the bible that seem convenient when they need to judge/condemn certain groups, while they ignore all of the other laws set forth within the same books and even chapters of the Bible. If you are going to use the Bible to openly chastise a group of people, I would have to assume that you follow all of the other laws, word for word. For example, Lev states that eating shell fish is an abomination to God, that you can own slaves as long as they are purchased from a neighboring nation, touching the skin of a dead pig makes you unclean, forbids men from getting a haircut...the list goes on and on. Most logical people would agree that these laws are silly and mostly put into the Bible to control people using religion, fear, and ignorance. Looks like it still works.

The Bible doesn't say homosexuality is the "ultimate sin"; Leviticus refers to it as a "toevah," the translation of which is up for grabs (though it's usually translated as abomination).

I'm Jewish, and we still follow many of the laws in Leviticus that Christians find to be so silly and foolish. However, Judaism simply doesn't hold the same homophobic obsession with gays and lesbians that Christianity does.

Furthermore, follow Jesus' example; one of his big issues was that the Pharisees seemed more concerned with the letter of the law rather than being a basically decent person.

Anybody ever read Romans 1:18-32?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom...

Todd is right on the money I always try to tell people that and they go and pull some other shit out of their ass

Another abomination is sowing discord between brothers and the bretheren ie mankind. So the hostility over this issue on both sides is wrong.

Agree to disagree. I won't tell you how to live if you don't tell me. Attacking people of faith is a dnagerous thing Michael. You are taking on a force that is far more powerful than the others. Address this issue but do not challenge God in the process.

fuck off Meret 4444 go preach your bullshit elsewhere.

Even if homosexuality is prohibited by the Bible, who cares? If you follow the Bible and believe it interprets homosexuality as "wrong" then don't do it. There are those that don't find that so, so just leave them alone. They just want to live their lives without being cast aside like second class citizens. They pay their taxes, they have families, they breathe and eat just like everybody else. Live and let live. If gays getting married somehow affects your heterosexual marriage, then you have a weak marriage. It also means that you've done something wrong. If your friend were to get a divorce, would that effect your marriage?

I don't think he's necessarily attacking religion, but rather how many religions try to use their opinions to constrict the rights of other citizens, and by doing so, they are becoming hypocrites to the Constitution. The Christian movement is most notably the religion that is in opposition to homosexuals. How can the members of this group be in favor of refusing basic rights when they have no proof that their religion is any more valid than Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Buddhism, etc? Using the bible, or any other religious book for that matter, to regulate laws in a country means, obviously, that you are regulating all people, even those of another religion or of none at all, with a book that has no more validity than J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" other than that Tolkien outright says that his masterpiece is a work of fiction.

And as for this passage:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom...
So if a gay couple were to not have sexual relations, which happens many times in the churches that do not chastise homosexuals, why are they refused marriage? They are doing nothing that is contrary to the bible. In a land where "all men are created equal," why are we refusing love to people who are humans just like everyone else? I can tell you why: hate and prejudice, i.e. homophobia. If you try to tell me that they'll have sex anyway, I'd like to point out that "sodomy," which includes anything other than intercourse for the purpose of reproduction, e.g. fellatio or foreplay, is legal in most states. So remember the next you wish to have a romantic time in bed with your partner, just hope that you live in a state where you can perform sodomy unless you would like a baby in your future.

Also, I do not understand why Christians are quoting the old testament to attempt to strengthen their points. What was the meaning of tearing of the temple curtain at Jesus' death? I'm sure it didn't mean that Jesus' death had fulfilled the old testament law, i.e. the ten commandments, meaning that they had become simply a guideline for Christians to live their lives, not a law book for the citizens of the USA or a reason to refuse the rights of others guaranteed by the Constitution.

The last time I checked, Jesus did not try to change laws, he did not try to overturn the government, and he did not show hatred or prejudice against anyone. When the pharisees tried to use the old testament law to condemn people, usually prostitutes and other "sinners," Jesus saved said people and showed them kindness love. He did not have rallies shouting "Go home fags!" while holding signs that say that fags are going to hell. He actually said that the pharisees had hardened their hearts and that they were the ones who would inherit eternal damnation. I'm also sure Jesus is proud that his brothers and sisters are have become the very people that he was murdered by.

I have to chuckle when leftists get religion. However, when they get it they usually get it wrong. So Michael Moore has discovered the Bible. Well, not exactly the whole Bible; only parts not there that seem to support his position on homosexuality. Confused? I know, it’s really hard to find truth and logical thinking nowadays, especially in Moore’s films. According to Moore, his next film will go after right wing Christians because in his words, “There is nowhere in the four Gospels where Jesus uses the word homosexual. The right wing has appropriated this guy … and they have used him to attack gays and lesbians, when he never said a single word against people who are homosexual. Anyone who professes to be a Christian and does that is certainly not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.”

Well, Michael, Jesus didn’t say anything against rape, bestiality, pedophilia, tripping blind people or cursing deaf people either. So according to your “logic” Michael, anyone who professes to be a Christian and who opposes rapists, opposes people having sex with children or animals, and is against tripping blind people “is certainly not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.”

I'm waiting for Moore to be consistent and make a movie chastising people who are opposed to pedophiles and bestiality. I'm not holding my breath since consistency is not the halllmark of a leftist.

So according to your “logic”

Tsk tsk tsk. Interesting that you should use quotation marks because it is YOU slick that is deficient in basic reasoning. If someone makes that statement that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, it means that Jesus can not be used to support one's argument. (whatever side it may be on) It does NOT mean that Jesus is thrilled about homosexuality, thus pedophilia and bestiality are ok with him (also things he said nothing about) Clearly, the problem here is that people such as yourself are soooo eager to make that senseless ass comparison between homosexuality, bestiality and pedophilia, (three very different things, mind you) that your brain manufactures shit people did NOT claim.

While it's always interesting to view and read responses on such a hot topic, words tend to get volatile and damaging for either side of the argument. The Bible has, and always will be, the guide Christians use for daily living. Being a pastor, I know the struggles of man trying to live up to that standard. While some views may see old and irrelevant, there are some that are more relevant than we realize. Unfortunately, both sides of any lifestyle idea will pull a verse out of the Bible and distort it for their side. While Jesus may not have mentioned homosexuality specifically, I believe He did discuss the hurts of the day and wanted to be the example, not just dictate action. One commandment Jesus said, more than once, was to "love your neighbor." While He urged us to keep the commandments, He did say that we should Love God with all our hearts and love our neighbors as ourselves. (Mark12:31)
It is unfortunate that we slam the lifestyle of one group and feel good about ourselves, which ever side of this you are on. Having homosexual family members was difficult for my wife and I to come to terms with, but with time and wanting to do what we believe Jesus would do in this, we went forward and love them. That is not to say we condemn or condone their actions, but we love the persons involved. There are some issues in it, like marriage and children, that should not be in the discussion, because it does difficult things up with all involved.

I am sure this may not be accepted well, but if you are going to slam Christians, on the whole, then wouldn't that put the person condemning on their pulpit trying to preach to the masses. Same action, different stance. Thanks for your time. Godspeed.

You gotta love these lunatics who parrott the bible, if you are going to exclude Gays and Lesbians from the chosen few, you better add ladies who wear hats in church and guys with long hair to that list. Paul condemned these people as shameful, no wait, that bit isn't relevant in our culture is it,? then tell me, which bits are.??

Religion is no more an acceptable excuse for homophobia than it is for racism. Somehow, it was used to defend slavery and later Jim Crow. This is just a bogus as that was.

Michael Moore is all about Michael Moore. He chooses to take on the Christian right because he hates the Christian right and the United States, the country he lavishly feeds off of. If he had true compassion and concern for gays and lesbians he would not cheer on and glorify Islamic terrorists, who routinely mutilate and slaughter homosexuals, wishing them obliterated from the face of the earth according to their religious beliefs, as he did on April 14, 2004 "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or The Enemy.' They are revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win." Win what Mr. Moore? The annihilation of not only gay and lesbians but you as well.

Michael Moore says Jesus never said anything about homosexuality but Jesus definitely said something about adultery, lust, and evil that proceeds out of the heart and the Apostle Paul whom Jesus called to serve Him and inspired Paul clearly says something against homosexuality in Romans the first three chapters. Also homosexuality is clearly spoken of in the O.T.
That doesn't mean homosexuals are worse sinners than the rest of us. All of us have sinned and come short of God's glory. So we all need to repent of any kind of sexual sin which includes adultery, beastiality, sexual actions against children by adultsl, pornograpy, as well as homosexuality.
I have weaknesses as a Christian which sometimes cause me to sin. I don't broadcast those weaknesses as being right. A thief could say he is born that way so it is not his fault if he steals. Accept people but don't accept that which is wrong in their lives. That does neither them nor society any good.
Also, those who claim to be Christians should take All of what scripture says regarding morality and not try to legalize that which is not good for them and is displeasing to God.
That doesn't mean we should physically abuse anyone who is sinful. We live in the age of grace. Under law everyone would be dead today. God is longsuffering waiting for everyone to repent of anything wrong in their life, receive His forgiveness and seek to please Him. That is the true Christian view of how to view life and people.
Those who want to justify what they do that is wrong and call black white and wrong right sometimes boast about what they should be ashamed of. God puts up with it and we should too showing love to those who go astray but never justifying any kind of wrong teaching or behavior. Jesus didn't do that. He forgave the woman caught in adultery then told her "Go and sin no more lest a worse thing happen to you." He didn't say, "You were born an adulterer and can't help your self so go live it up. That's great!" No, while he forgives sins he never promotes them based on the supposed way we are born. Instead He died for us loving us in spite of our sin. But we must believe in His death for our sins and not call them okay because those sins cost Him His life.
What I have said is not politically correct today but in a day to come everyone will have to give an account for their beliefs and behavior. The final judgement is yet to come. When people stand before God, arguing the rightness of what one sees as wrong won't work. God is true even if people lie about Him and His will.
Meanwhile may God draw everyone who reads this to His Son who loved them and died for their sins that they might be forgiven and have a new life. That is the good news of the Bible-Forgiveness of sinners. But if we deny our sin we will never seek to receive Christ and His forgiveness.