Precious will be so hard to watch, but I know its amazing.

I'm glad you guys got Jen Yamato back on. She's one of my favorite recurring guests.

Quigley needs to see that video where researchers experiment on black children by giving them a choice between white and black barbie dolls and all the kids pick the white one over the black one, and explain that the white one is better simply because it's white, and the black one is bad because it's black.

Black people want white things, black people want to be white. They are proud of being black but that doesn't mean they aren't envious at a much deeper level.

When all you have is the media to guide your thoughts about a group of people you can't relate to, you're going to be wrong more often than not in your conclusions about them.

I agree. The entire notion of black people wanting to be white comes from a long brainwashing of the black culture, and the effects still linger on today.

I'm not sure I understand what stance you're taking in reference to what I was saying. I haven't seen the video you're talking about, but I do find that interesting, as well as not the least bit surprising. The briefly touched-on theme in Precious about accepting yourself was interesting for the very same reasons, but then seemed to undermine that message by (perhaps unconsciously) perpetuating those same media-enforced ideals, such as with all the pleasant characters in the film being portrayed by good-looking, lighter-skinned actors.

That was the point I was trying to address when discussing that theme in the film.

EDIT: I re-listened to the episode and now understand what section of the review you're referring to (specifically, that I don't think a black person would, if asked, say they wished they were white, and how that idea in the film felt like it was meant to provide a message addressed to a primarily white audience). In that regard, your point is well taken.

Thanks for the response! And thanks for gracefully conceding even though I probably sounded like a douche.

Here's the video of the experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybDa0gSuAcg

I was critical of that one point you made, but I agreed with most of everything else you said in the review, including some of the sketchier stuff about the light skinned actress casting, to a smaller extent.

Also great show overall. The three of you guys work well together and provide some of the best film insight I've managed to find online.

Sounded like a douche? Not at all. I wish all internet comments were as respectful and well-reasoned as yours.

And I have to say, I literally almost burst into tears watching that video. Truly appalling. I appreciate you providing the link, even though I'm now incredibly depressed after having clicked it.

Adam Quigley i so used stand your view about good-looking, lighter-skinned actors issue. in the UK we had a shows during a whole week about race issues. heres the show you need to check it out

Bleach, Nip. Tuck: The White Beauty Myth part 1 + 2

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php...

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php...

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php...

Dave: Terrific editing. I think that's all that needs to be said.

Devindria: You're pretty awesome, like, almost all of the time.

Adam: I saw the movie, and the opinion you stated from 1:34:40 to 1:35:14, completely mimics my sentiments as well. I may be mistaken, but I think that was your true point throughout the discussion, even though it may have gotten lost when, uhh, stuff happened.

That's why you just have to watch it live, folks. Amazing podcast.

i apologize for being rude in the chatroom.

Can someone post the link to that New Moon review that Dave read? It sounds funny.

Wait never mind I just found it.

One of the many reasons "the books were better, they make the film okay to watch!" does not hold up as a defense of the films:

"Stephenie Meyer, the series' author, has been criticized for her portrayal of a weak, helpless female lead who falls madly in love with a man who wants to kill her. Others disagree and claim that the relationship has fair precedent, citing the common practice of marriages to incarcerated serial killers and the notorious original ending to the movie Terminator. This idea has been backed up by legions of the books' fans, prompting others of the female persuasion to attempt to forcibly remove their extra X chromosome." - cracked.com

I agree, it does always come back to white people and how they feel about the issue.

this podcast was very interesting. i think you guys should definitely talk more often about social issues in your review...i live in germany and when the movie comes out, probably in march, i will defintely go see it.thanx for the great podcast,once again

On the light skin characters being the most positive. I going to have agree with Adam to a certain extent, I, being a person of color, have seen the trend of lighter skin people of color sort of being the more...admirable character. I don't believe it is intentional, but there seems to be some sort of gravity influencing these casting decisions. It's interesting, perhaps ironic, in this instance because "Precious" even sort of comments on that very same problem with the main character wanting a "light-skinned boyfriend". It can be inferred that she wants a light skin boyfriend because she's been conditioned by media and culture that light skin blacks are better blacks - full stop. What's more is that she then goes on to find that her only support group are...light skin people of color. It does raise an eyebrow.

In regards to the film being somewhat catered to white-liberals so that they can feel better; "Precious" isn't the first and probably won't be the last. I don't think it's anything new. I think you guys mentioned "Dangerous Minds", but have you seen "The Blind Side"? I'd wager that that film is the white-conservative analogue. Sometimes this sort of film making is deliberate, and sometimes I don't think it is. I haven't seen "Precious" so I don't think I can comment as to whether or not, but I know what sometimes happens is when a film isn't deliberate in trying to draw out these feelings from white audiences it happens anyway because it part of the current zeitgeist. Take for example "Boyz in the Hood" and "Menace II Society". Those two films were made with NO intention towards trying to make white audiences feel charitable that they saw it, but it happens anyway. Having said that, I don't want white people to feel that it's not good thing to patronize these films, but I would ask that they see them because they want to see it. Not because they're feeling charitable.

Adam, in any event, it's really refreshing to see these sort of things pointed by not only by critics, but by white ones at that. You get mucho puntos in my book.

Excellent episode, everyone was in great form - particularly Adam. Can't believe it's been 10 years since Fight Club came out!

Devindra Hardawar, Heimdall is called "whitest of the gods" its not a reference of his skin colour. the phrase "whitest of the gods" is a reference that Heimdall was the "god of light" as well as being the watchman. His wisdom was probably connected with his sleepless watching over all the worlds. this is taken from Poetic Edda a Old Norse poems "The Lay of Thrym"

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe11.htm

also Heimdall is a son of Odin, although in some tales he is described as a foster son or adopted son. He is known to be the son of "nine mothers"

Thanks for having me on, guys! Your podcast is always thoughtful and entertaining. kreig8631, thanks for the support. :)

I also have to commend Adam Quigley in particular for being especially on his game, and I don't say that just because of his admirable defense of defenders of Twilight. Well, maybe that's why. (D & D, you guys also rock.) But it's a considerate and practical stance to take regarding Twilightmania, and I appreciated it.

I also found Adam's point about black representations in Precious interesting. I think things like that should be noticed and considered, especially when they pop up in films that are so obviously culturally and racially minded. I'd be shocked if Lee Daniels didn't notice it, either before or after the casting process. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt as a filmmaker to have been aware of it, at least at some point.

David began the episode with a quick discussion and analysis of Fight Club. All of you seemed at loss in regards to the reasoning behind the actual fighting part of Fight Club and its connection to the theme of the movie as a whole. I'm not sure if any of the hosts were aware of this, but the character motivations and plot development of Fight Club are a direct reflection of Buddhism and the story of Buddha.
The story of Buddha begins with a prince, Buddha, who lives a luxurious life in which he is protected from the outside world of suffering and is satisfied with limitless material possessions and comforts. When he realizes that there is suffering in the world he becomes an ascetic and punishes his body through long fasts, self-induced mortification and isolation. After almost dieing from this path of deprivation and torture, Buddha discovers the Middle Way, a path of moderation.
This same path is presented by the narrator in Fight Club. At first he lives a highly consumerist life and hopes to satisfy his needs by gaining more material possessions. He begins to suffer from insomnia and depression and as a result decides to seek those who are truly suffering in the self-help groups. After he realizes what true suffering is he is met with a cessation of his own suffering. Yet, he then comes across Marla Singer, which is the beginning of a whole new crisis which relates to Buddhism. I don't want to type the rest of this out so here's the link to the article I'm copying these ideas from.
http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/vol11no2/ReedFightCl...

and here's a video which shows the 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism in relation to Fight Club
http://www.livevideo.com/video/TravisTylerNewWo...

Adam's comments about the Twilight craze were spot on. The male teenage audience will turn out in droves to see a shitty action movie (2012, Revenge of the Fallen, etc.) and yet this is excusable? The Twilight movies suck and I can't get an intelligent response from anyone, boy or girl, who can explain why they love them. Then I hear this bullshit about that's how it is in the books. That is not a defense. Does that mean the books are SO much better than movies? Who knows?

good slash cast again. i hate when it gets to spoiler territory when i haven't seen the movie being talked about. i listened to this during the live cast and kept un-muting it right when a spoiler was about to be said :P

Stop interrupting the others adam, ffs.

Adam, I loved your discussion of Precious. Pretty much everything you touched on I felt at one point or another. The "white liberal" stance makes sense and I do think the believability was stretched at many times, mostly do to the almost unbelievable circumstances stacked upon her.

Adam, I usually agree with you a hundred percent. But I think you are way off in your views, but hey it's a free country.

This reminds me of another film involving Oprah- 'The Color Purple.' When I was younger, I was surprised at the amount of hardship the main character went through- I never knew a world where a girl has children with her father and has to endure years of abuse. But that was because my circumstances were very different and I hadn't been exposed to that story before. That's why cinema is great. It would be ideal to have it not be an issue, not portray black people always struggling, just have them be superheroes ('Hancock' btw) and have more movies not just geared to 'just' black audiences (it's a two way street). But that's why a film such as this resonates. It's still relevant.

Saying that if you read the book it makes the movie ok is not a defense whatsoever. It's a complete cop out for someone that refuses to believe that the movie, based on the book that for some unknown reason love, has no saving graces as a movie in any regards. For shame.

Hach, another fantastic episode.

I thought this was probably the best /Filmcast ep I've heard... and that was before the Precious discussion. I mostly agree with Adam on Precious and I'm always glad that a white person doesn't feel restricted in this kind of conversation.

Oh man. I love the /filmcast. Another great one. Thanks!

Oddly, I've never been a big fan of female commentators of any kind really. But you guys manage to get the ones that I not only don't have a problem listening to, but actually enjoy hearing. Thanks for helping with me my misogyny.

Great podcast! My first (found you from SceneUnseen)...and I'm commenting so late, but it's all positive.

Interesting that with New Moon, you spent a long time discussing the differences/similarities between the book and the film, but that didn't come up with Precious. As you know, Precious is based on the book Push by Sapphire. In the book, Sapphire tosses all this horror at Precious -- and in fact, the book details out the horrors much more than the film does. So Lee Daniels does tone it down. (Hey, when I read the book: I was really mad at Sapphire when Precious ends up with HIV. I couldn't believe that she did that to Precious, who had already suffered so much.)

But I'm not writing to excuse the filmmakers or imply that a movie should be a slave to a book. (Which I kinda felt like Jen Y did with New Moon.) I really liked the film, but agree with most of the comments about how the film could have been improved. Having read the book, I was glad to see the movie cut out some of the things that happen to Precious, but after hearing all of your comments, I agree that removing even more might have led to a better, more believable plot.

One thing from the book that I missed was the discussion of skin color. Although Precious' feelings about this are touched on in the movie, I felt that more could have been done. And perhaps if this subject had been part of the dialogue, the filmmakers might have considered the lighter skin color of several of the "good guys" -- this has been brought up among many commentators and the general African American viewing public as well.

Anyway, loved it, can't wait to hear more!