harrypotterchamberposter

[This article is part two of a four-part series. You can also read part one, part three, and part four]

Another year, another Harry Potter film directed by Chris Columbus. My hopes were a bit higher going into this one. With one massively successful Potter film under his belt, would Columbus better refine his craft to deliver us a more compelling sequel?


Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (2002)

This time around, our adventurers find themselves entangled with the mystery of the chamber of secrets, a hidden area of the school housing a secret that threatens to destroy all the “mudbloods” (those who aren’t descended purely from wizards) at Hogwarts. When compared with the Sorcerer’s Stone, this film feels a lot less like it’s trying to say “Wow, look around at how cool everything is!” The world has already been established, and Columbus leans a little bit more on his existing creation, leaving room for a little bit more plot to take hold. The CGI, and by extension, the overall look of the film, is noticeably better in this film. The quidditch matches feel a little bit more believable and I was actually impressed with Dobby, a CGI character who’s annoying as hell but who totally works, visually and thematically, in this world. Every time I saw Dobby, I couldn’t decide whether to punch him in the throat or to give him a hug, so I guess that’s an achievement on the filmmaker’s part.

But overall, I still felt like this film had many of the same problems as the first film, lacking a real compelling narrative to keep me interested until the end. And with that initial aura of discovery significantly diminished, I actually felt this movie was weaker.

Here’s what made this film frustrating for me: The introduction of some interesting themes that end up going nowhere. The first part of the film sets up Malfoy as a great foil to Potter, but as with many elements in these first two films, it’s a red herring that ends up going nowhere. I should say I’m a huge fan of Tom Felton’s’s portrayal of Draco Malfoy, and an equally big fan of his delightfully sleazy father, Lucius, played by Jason Isaacs. Young Malfoy is truly a douchebag, with just a hint of racism (at least, this universe’s version of it), which makes him a great object of hatred for the audience. The conflict between Potter and Malfoy is rife with overtones of good and evil, as well as adolescent angst, and I found myself sad to see Malfoy almost completely vanish from the second half of the film. The “pureblood/mudblood” conflict, as an allegory for racism had the potential to carry this film to a satisfying conclusion. No doubt we’ll see Malfoy return in future films, but it felt like a wasted opportunity.

The final confrontation, crucial in films as long as these are, was limp and disappointing. While I appreciated its mystery-solving elements, I just don’t think that Columbus is what this series needs when it comes to thrills. The way the protracted finale is shot and paced made it utterly devoid of any suspense for me. In fact, the ending felt an awful lot like a warmed over rehash of the resolution to The Sorcerer’s Stone.

One of the few things that redeemed this film for me was a thoroughly entertaining performance by Kenneth Branagh who is magnificent as Professor Gilderoy Lockhart, an incompetent, flamboyant celebrity blowhard. Gilderoy is the Stephen Colbert of Hogwarts, a man enamored of his own talents but with barely the slightest capacity to acknowledge his inadequacies. His inevitable fate in this film is a fitting one, and pays off the recurring broken wand motif brilliantly.

After this film, I’m five hours into the Potter universe, and while I haven’t violently hated Chris Columbus’s contributions,  I’m not particularly impressed yet and I’m starting to look at my watch frequently enough to make me wonder whether or not writing this series was a good idea.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (2004)

At last, the film I’d been waiting for. Alfonso Cuaron. Gary Oldman. Harry Potter connection or not, this film already had a lot of the ingredients for success and it was the one I was most eagerly anticipating. Would the film actually live up to its potential? And would the massive gulf in talent between Columbus and Cuaron be noticeable on screen?

Right from the first scene, you can feel the difference. The title reveal as Potter tries to cast a spell beneath his sheets adds just a bit of flair than we’re used to, followed by the opening moments of the film proper, which portray Harry’s insufferable home life, a sequence we’ve scene played out twice already. I was honestly starting to get tired of seeing the same old thing again, but this time, as Harry loses his temper at his boorish aunt and the camera dollies into his face, I felt something I hadn’t felt until now in this series: Danger. Sure, the ensuing scene where Marge expands into a balloon is played for laughs, with its preposterous concept and carnival music. But if such a thing were to happen in real life, it would be grotesque and terrifying, and it shows Potter succumbing to the potential dark side of his powers.

Indeed, while many said the said Chamber of Secrets was darker than its predecessor, it’s Azkaban that really runs with some of the more mature themes inherent in the series. Cuaron’s palette matches it well; he eschews the bright colors of Colombus and tends towards a look that’s significantly more monochromatic. The result is a more moody piece of work that actually helps to make the character moments more memorable, saving them from being lost amidst the general craziness of Hogwarts. The script also cuts the foreplay and gets right to the main conflict at the beginning: Sirius Black, an alleged Voldemort supporter, has escaped from Azkaban, the Potter-universe equivalent of a supermax prison. Having contributed to the death of Potter’s parents, Black may be looking to finish the job by tracking down Potter.

Opening scene aside, I still felt like the opening hour of this film, especially the whacky double-decker ghost bus sequence, was very similar to the previous films. Sure, Cuaron shows us a couple flourishes (the scene when Professor Lupin, played by David Thewlis, first trains his students in his Defense Against the Dark Arts class has more creepiness than both of Columbus’ films put together) but we’re mostly going from class to class, moment to moment with no indication of whether or not it will pay off.

The biggest difference between this film and the previous two is evident the final 45-60 minutes, right after we get a tantalizing few moments with Gary Oldman, who shows up as the uninvited Sirius Black. It’s here that we’re finally treated to a story element that is inventive, both conceptually and visually, as Potter and Granger travel back in time to alter the past. These sequences are the most thrilling in the entire series thus far, as we’re viewing the film’s past events through an entirely different perspective, and left wondering how they will pull the whole thing off. It’s also here that Cuaron shows hints of the bold filmmaking he would later display in Children of Men.

More importantly, the film coheres thematically. Throughout Azkaban, we finally see Potter express a profound dissatisfaction with his place in life, and the circumstances that fate has dealt him. In this film’s ultimate confrontation, Potter makes an important realization and acts upon it, showing that this character actually has the capacity to mature and change.

Overall, I’m intrigued enough to keep going. Cuaron really showed that this series has cinematic potential when you stop focusing on the disparate, magical elements in the series and instead stick to a single, simple, exciting story. If there’s one other thing I could complain about, it’s the same thing I say about virtually every film I watch: It needed more Oldman.

Discuss: What did you think of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, and Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban?

[This article is part two of a four-part series. You can also read part 1, part three, and part four]

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About the Author

David Chen currently does research and writing for a university in the Boston area. He can be reached at davechensemail(AT)gmail(DOT)com.

  • Hahaha..good change...I am not agree with you topheavy.
    I think all character are good on its place. I would n't like any change.
  • topheavy
    I totally agree, Oldman should have been batman.. and he should have been harry potter. We all can agree that he could pull it off.
  • cantona_x
    I actually think Gary Oldman is one of the weak part of the third movie, he is not born for this charactor like commissioner Gordon, the BLACK charactor in the book is way more fascinating

    also the whole climax sequence didn't fullfill me totally like the book's long ending which I thought is the best part in all HP universe; Carau seems pay too much attention toward the the length of the movie, and the first three books actually are way page lesser than the laters.
  • ezgoo
    There was never enough Oldman in any of these films. Great stuff dave
  • TMorren
    Mmmm, it would be interesting to watch these movies without experiencing the books beforehand. i really enjoy them (i'm literally leaving to watch in HBP in 25mins) but i realise that i notice a hell of a lot more when something has been left out than how it succeeds on first viewing. As a fan of the series since i read the Philosophers Stone as one of it's target market age-wise, I fail to see how some of the larger omissions from the books would not have been suitable in the films.

    For example, NO SPOILERS HERE, there is a scene in Dumbledore's office at the end of OotP which I seriously believe they practically wiped out because of a lack of belief in Daniel Radcliffe's acting capabilities. He's decent enough but pulls off anger as an emotion really badly. He seems to do moody silence quite well, but there you go.

    p.s - if you liked more Oldman David, then prepare to be monumentally disappointed by the next film.

    Nice one doing these reviews.
  • Dude
    Great articles David!!! can't wait to read the rest, and are you also going to review HP6?

    p.s. "facebook-515936236" you're an idiot.
  • I think the movies get better and better. I would actually list them 5 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 1.

    The 3rd one gets the props for establishing the tone that would be used for the remainder of the series. But I actually think the story is bit anti-climatic (no big confrontation). The 5th book was my least favorite, but they managed to strip out a lot of the annoying "Potter being a whiny idiot" stuff and make it a very driven story. The 6th book as my favorite and I can't wait to get out of work and go see the movie.
  • Michael_W
    I think there was a really funny joke in an otherwise lame movie about someone going to a party and having to watch all the of the Harry Potter films one after the other...anyone remember which movie that was?
  • plagueoftruth
    Yes Man.
  • In that photo Harry looks like Martin Short with bad skin.
  • nowseed
    I read in comingsoon that harry potter 6 did 20 million on midnight screenings, beating The Dark Knight. Pretty Impressive really. I bet half-blood prince will be the fifth film that surpass the billion mark worldwide.
  • anaelfman
    I am thoroughly enjoying your fresh and square one insights on the Harry Potter movie series, and I agree with most of your remarks. The Philosopher's Stone was bound to be both light and exciting, since it was about setting up the entire Harry Potter world and it would always be thrilling to see the places and characters that we had read about (this does not apply to you, but in general I think that it was the case), but also we were talking about 11-year-old characters, it couldn't be much darker.

    The Chamber of Secrets was a huge disappointment for me. I was really impressed by the first film and when I saw that the sequel didn't bring any character development, plot densening, increase in the sense of danger and evil and showing a clear and shallow preference for show-off special effects (since when does Expelliarmus sends you flying and twisting in the air?), especially in the final Chamber scenes and the confrontations with the snake, I got really downhearted.

    But then came along The Prison of Azkaban, my favourite book at the time. I didn't watch it at the cinema, I watch it in DVD so that the impact would be weaker (good or bad) and even if at first the changes in storytelling are very slight, the tone and ambiance of the film are completely different, much darker, much serious. And yes, the time turner scenes were delightful, as were all the scenes with Gary Oldman, who filled in the entire space with his presence and intensity.

    Looking forward to your next remarks! I really enjoy your website!
  • manjack
    essentially, this is a kid's at school series with fantasy elements. the class to class stuff is what life is like for kids. danger is behind every corner! but first, i need to finish my homework. as for a malfoy and potter wasted opportunity, you need to keep in mind that was film 2 in a veeerryyy long series. it is all just setting the stage, and to exploit that tension or rivalry that early would truly be the waste.
  • Colonel_Kurtz
    "Opening scene aside, I still felt like the opening hour of this film, especially the whacky double-decker ghost bus sequence, was very similar to the previous films...The biggest difference between this film and the previous two is evident the final 45-60 minutes,"

    Figures...I only made it through 2 and 1/2 of the 1st 3 movies. It's all up to you now, David Chen. I don't envy you. This task that lays before you is indeed daunting. Good luck to you, sir, and remember...whatever happens, do NOT fall asleep.
  • Dobby was ok and at that moment i felt the achivement was superb because it was done not with motion capture like gollum.
    i was bore by all de HP movies but that one with Dobby.
  • allthingsneedmoreoldman
    Oldman ftw
  • good reviews. I agreed, Malfoy and Gilderoy Lockhart were the best in Chamber of Secrets. I also felt it lacked something, but I didn't know what. the Mudblood/Muggles racism plotline could have played a larger role in the story and would make the film much more interesting.

    Prisoner of Azkaban had some beautiful color palettes like you said. I think it gave the franchise a big (visual) boost.
  • Great idea for a feature Dave. I did the same thing myself...but consolidated my viewing down to a single weekend. After obtaining the collectors edition HDDVD gift set for "dirt," I recently dove into the world of Harry Potter for the first time. I never had any desire to read the books or see the films...but I just couldn't resist the price of this set. I simply thought, for whatever reasons, that neither had any entertainment value for me.

    Even after watching year 1, I found myself surprisingly engrossed in the world and very much interested in the characters. Having watched all five now, I can't believe it, but I'm a fan.

    I've been pleasantly surprised by the writing and the acting of the three young actors. The star power pulled in these films has also amazed me: Oldman, Brannagh, Emma Thompson (who is likely my favorite character of the lot), Ralph Fiennes, Thewlis and Richard Harris (who was perfect as Dumbledore).

    Of course, I have to drop a note about the franchise's music here. Prior to seeing all of the films, I felt Patrick Doyle's score for Goblet of Fire was the best of the lot, but now I see John Williams establishing scores are borderline iconic. Of course, the score's relationship to one of JWs all-time best efforts, HOOK, doesn't hurt either. What I realized here is that Williams' "maturing" style certainly works better for Harry Potter than it does in the Star Wars prequels.

    Lastly, I'm also of the opinion that Prisoner of Azkaban is the best thus far, but was well entertained by Goblet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix as well.

    Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the rest of the series. KEEP GOING!
  • icenineiv
    POA was a revelation to me when it came out. Despite the story that was cut, it was the first time someone was taking the series seriously and making a real movie out of it. Probably my favorite still, though I haven't seen HBP yet.
  • mangos
    SPOILERS for ORDER OF PHOENIX(aka dont' look david)



    poor david is gonna be pissed when he sees the utter BS of Black's fate.
  • plagueoftruth
    SPOILERS for ORDER OF PHOENIX CONTINUED...





    After book five, I had a 'Sirius Lives' button made up. I wear it on my bookbag every day, even now.

    I'm still working through some things.
  • I empathize with you on the more Oldman bit, but really... how much screen time can the guy get if he's a notorious mass murderer that has both the Muggle world and Wizarding world searching for him?

    My only gripes with PoA: No backstory on the Marauders or Harry's Patronus (there is a reason it takes the form of a stag). Knowing about the relationship between Sirius, Lupin, James, and Pettigrew while they were at Hogwarts makes you hate Pettigrew even more for what he did and endears you more to Sirius and Lupin. Plus it's just a really cool backstory.
  • Agreed. I've often found that telling people who have just seen Prisoner of Azkaban that there is a lot more backstory about the Marauders in the books convinces them to read the books. Let's see if Mr Chen takes the bait ... :)
  • GB
    This is exactly the pattern I followed.

    I'd seen the first two movies, thought "meh", then saw the third with a friend who had read all of the books (the first 5 were out at this point). The moment arrived when they were on the edge of the pond, the Dementors were closing in, and suddenly a blast of white light comes out of nowhere and disperses them... I was annoyed. I'd been thoroughly enjoying the film, and all a sudden we get yet another "magicus ex machina" (which was how I'd viewed the endings of the first two films), and I muttered something equivalent to my friend. To her credit, she told me to shut the hell up and keep watching, and of course I absolutely adored the ending sequence.

    After the film, it was her insistence that the backstory made a lot more sense in the book that made me give the series a try, and it's become one of my favorites.
  • Magicus ex machina is just as much a problem in the books as it is in the movies. I hated the second book for that reason and it was used excessively in the last book. Ugh.
  • I hope so. I don't know how many times I've told people to just read the damn books. Books 1 and 2 could easily be read in a day. The books offer so much more clarification and commentary (not to mention they're freaking incredible), which is why it's hard for me to take seriously someone who simultaneously complains about not understanding the films and refuses to read the books.
  • Ditto that. Always nice to find a fellow Harry Potter fan :)
  • plagueoftruth
    I used to be a hater. I used to make fun of the fans too. Then (about when the first film was being released) a friend who's opinions on books I really trust told me "The book series chronicles seven years at Hogwarts. The first book is year one and they're eleven. The last book they will be seventeen. The great thing is that as the characters get older, the stories become more adult." That's the concept that hooked me. The books certainly didn't disappoint, but it was the end of book four that really brought it home. The true stakes were revealed, this was no longer kid's stuff. I won't spoil it for anyone, but those who have seen the films or read the book probably know what I'm talking about. It was that one chapter than made into the fan I am today.

    Now I have Harry Potter pillowcases.

    David, you should read these books. I've never known a person to read them and not love them, no matter how snarky they were to start. I know you have a lot dvds on your shelf that still need watching, but if you ever find the time to read them (and just like the films, you need to get past the first two before the juicy center starts to show) you will not be disappointed.
  • I love reading stuff like this. People can choose to be as cynical as they want towards Harry Potter. But when you see the amount of books or film tickets sold and you hear about how the books made children (myself included) actually like reading, it's just hard to see how anyone can find that as a bad thing or something to be made fun of.
  • iec
    Dude, a huge percentage of the criticism here has to do with the source material. You haven't even read the books, and you're complaining about "I don't know where this is going, it just seems like a bunch of random class stuff." That's what Harry Potter IS. If they cut that out, no way would anyone who actually cares about the series appreciate the film.

    Not only that, but the aspect that's complimented in the third film is just: "It’s here that we’re finally treated to a story element that is inventive, both conceptually and visually, as Potter and Granger travel back in time to alter the past. These sequences are the most thrilling in the entire series thus far, as we’re viewing the film’s past events through an entirely different perspective, and left wondering how they will pull the whole thing off."

    Are you SERIOUS? That's from the BOOK. It's not like the director was like "Okay, now we're going to make these movies way better with this new concept." Again, almost everything you criticize or compliment finds its roots in the source material. This is very poor film criticism. In fact, it's not even film criticism in the slightest. It's just story/commercial criticism.

    If you haven't read the books, criticism of the story/structure of the movies is pointless.
  • David, Kumar, Tim and urkel already summarized most of what I had to say, but I feel like providing my support anyway. Your complaint about David's review reflects more about you than it does him. Movie adaptations shouldn't be carbon copies of the book to the film, and if there are elements that don't translate well in bring the story to the big screen, it's up to the filmmakers to alter them in ways that do. Unfortunately though, the Harry Potter fans are so rabid that they refuse to separate the two entities, and tend to merely judge how well the movies replicate the books and not how well they stand on their own as FILMS. This is completely backwards, and actually demonstrates how David's approach to reviewing this series has yielded one of the few honest, unbiased perspectives available. He's reviewing the film series based on how it succeeds as a film series, and not an adaptation of the source material. That's the way it should be done.
  • plagueoftruth
    You tell 'em, Adam.

    Look, I'm probably the biggest Harry Potter fan I know. I have read the books and seen the films more times than I can count and I really don't understand the crazy fanboys. The fact is: no matter how you slice it, you can't jam a 300 page book into a film and not leave things out. (The books obviously get a LOT longer than that, but as we're discussing PoA, we'll keep it at around 300.) I have come to see the films as a 'greatest hits' of the books. I don't get why people get so upset that they leave things out.

    If 'Happiness is a Warm Gun' comes on the radio, I'm going to listen and enjoy. I'm not going to bitch that they're not playing the entire White Album in order.

    The argument that if you haven't read the book, you don't have the right to critique the film is moronic to the point of laughter. It's not even worth debating.

    Please don't judge all Harry Potter fans on the basis of these few insane commenters. There are plenty out there who are able to be logical AND Potter fanatics. The two are not mutually exclusive.
  • experiment626
    "If you haven't read the books, criticism of the story/structure of the movies is pointless."

    oh no you di-in't, nothing says pretentious book loving fanboy quite like that quote. That entire rant of yours just proves that the Harry Potter movies are just glorified companion pieces to the books.

    film criticism is about critiquing everything about the movie and just the movie. You're supposed to view it as if it's the only medium that matters, taking any source material into account would just be spoiling the movie for yourself. If anything the review shows how the source material themselves are inherently flawed.

    It's fans like you that make me hate Harry Potter and everything associated with it.
  • Don't hate on the series because of a few nutcase fans. Trust me, they are a very very small minority.
  • Joshua
    Way to be a douchebag by starting out with a fairly good point and then ending with "It's fans like you that make me hate Harry Potter and everything associated with it."

    Why did you waste your time commenting on a Harry Potter post, then? Don't you have anything better to do?
  • urkel
    Reading the book isn't a prerequisite for evaluating a movie. And when it comes to Harry Potter then if you don't fall into it's target demographic then watching the movie WITHOUT knowledge of the book will provide you with a more entertaining experience.

    I get it. Harry Potter has outsold the Bible and it has it's cult following that will stone me for this blasphemy. Rowling created a beautiful world but she wasn't a very good writer. In a few decades when these kids re-read the series then many of them will come to realize that the books drag on way longer than necessary. So if one chooses to watch the movies and skip the books then they're saving a few dozen hours of their lives.
  • Tim
    This is a ridiculous comment. Of course a movie can be judged on its own terms. Source material means nothing when reviewing a film as a cohesive whole. It's up to the writer and director of the film to choose which story elements to keep, sacrifice, or alter in order to make the film work as a compelling narrative.

    Just calm down a bit.
  • I don't dispute that a huge percentage of the criticism has to do with the source material, but screenwriters (in this case, Steve Kloves) make decisions about how to shape distill hundreds of pages of text into a 150-page screenplay, then director's take those decisions and further try to make that screenplay into a compelling movie (occasionally by adding stuff in or taking stuff out). It's not unreasonable to say that the director has a hand in determining whether a film adaptation of a book ends up really compelling or really boring.

    As for your point that "That's what Harry Potter IS," sure, that's great, but that doesn't mean I have to like it on film.
  • iec
    My point is, you're not totally criticizing the film on its own grounds. Film criticism would be criticizing the writing, dialog, cinematography, pacing, etc. Saying that you enjoyed the third film BECAUSE there was TIME TRAVEL is commercial, beside the point, and not a criticism of the film. Are you suggesting the director/writer of the first film should have thrown in something like time travel, just to make a "better movie"? More entertaining?

    Yes, you are. You are suggesting the source material should be changed in order for you to find the movie compelling. Not with regards to cinematography, not with regards to acting, but with regards to the STORY, which has ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN.

    So WHY should this film be made if it has nothing to do with the books? Huh? Why don't they just make some OTHER movie about wizards, and you'll like it just as much, and it WON'T bastardize the source material. What commercial film reviewers don't get is what it's like to BE an author. If you're going to essentially STEAL something that already existed, was PERFECTLY FINE the way it was, and RUIN it just by making it a film in the first place, then, I don't know, who cares how it turns out? You're setting out on a failed mission in the first place. Especially if it's Harry Potter, because producers are ONLY doing this to make money off of a franchise. I don't expect to be pleased by these films. They do not exist to have total integrity.

    You make valid points about the director's failures to fit a 500 page novel into 1.5 hours, concerning the plot. My main point is: it is flat out absurd to compliment the third film over the first two on the basis that the ending is interesting. How could the first two be interesting to you? That is HOW THE BOOKS END, cut down because film producers are stupid, but conceptually identical.

    I don't think you can criticize a script with integrity without knowing the source material. You will make comments that inevitably betray your ignorance, that are in no way constructive because they are not in the power of the screen-writer to affect without betraying his/her own integrity of adaptation. Go ahead and criticize any other aspect of the making of the film, and you'll know what you're talking about. Not that it matters; you're writing in a blog. But if anyone got this advice on a script that was going into production, they'd shoot you down with everything I've already said.

    And that's that. Film criticism is one of the most useless practices, I don't know why I bother responding to it. Most reviewers don't even know what goes into making a film (and I'm not saying you don't, David), but that mere fact alone makes it pretty obvious that they're just little mirrors making a profession/hobby out of reflecting and nitpicking what they're not even capable of dealing with on their own. Everyone has their own opinion on how things should be, and you're just writing for a blog, trying to engage the readers with your opinion. Such is life.

    I don't mean offense, though I come off strongly. I just think that if you don't care about the books, then I don't really know why you care about the movies.

    As for the ridiculous posts beneath me, calling me some "Harry Potter fanatic," I don't really know what they're talking about, but I love how much bullshit people can draw from a block of text and their own little box of assumptions.
  • plagueoftruth
    By the way...

    "Cuaron’s palette matches it well; he eschews the bright colors of Colombus and tends towards a look that’s significantly more monochromatic. The result is a more moody piece of work that actually helps to make the character moments more memorable, saving them from being lost amidst the general craziness of Hogwarts."

    "Cuaron really showed that this series has cinematic potential when you stop focusing on the disparate, magical elements in the series and instead stick to a single, simple, exciting story."

    "The way the protracted finale is shot and paced made it utterly devoid of any suspense for me."

    You say that David is only focusing on story elements and not commenting on filmmaking.

    Did you actually read the review you feel so comfortable criticizing?
  • iec
    yeah, didn't read all of it. my bad, I'll admit it. I was quick to type which was stupid. regardless, my point was his comment about the end of the film, of the scenes unrelated to the driving plot, and the way he talks about the stories.

    it would be more constructive to analyze the way the ending of the films played out if you actually know how the ending in the books play out. then you could say "okay, so this is different in this aspect, and it should really be this way in order to portray the scene the best." otherwise it's just "this is bad. this is also bad. I don't like this. this is better because it has time travel, and is way cooler." for instance: Sorcerer's Stone ending in the books is REALLY LONG, and if they stretched that scene out, for David it wouldn't be more engaging, it would probably be too long. but that's HOW THE BOOK ENDS. the only way to please such an opinion would be to change the essential elements of the story.

    as I said, if you want to criticize such an ending appropriately, criticize the ending of the book.
  • experiment626
    wow you're an even bigger moron than I thought you were. No, it would not be more constructive to analyze a movie based one whatever the hell source it came from. Doing so defeats the purpose of the existence of the movie in the first place. You're probably one of those purist losers who hate the Disney movies because they are "so different" from the original fairy tales and worship Zack Snider for his complete lack of compromise in his adaptations. Just because the book's story is one way doesn't mean the movie has to follow everything. It is not set in stone. Movies are allowed to stray from the source material if it means to serve the story better (just like the omission of something in the 6th movie because it would happen again in the next movie anyway).

    and your whole rant on "why movies are made" is ridiculously cynical and unfounded. No it is not an exercise in egoism to reinterpret something and change things around. If changes are made that's because the source either doesn't translate well on film or plain old sucks.

    the point of a movie critique is to asses whether the film flows well and never lets you lose your suspension of disbelief through plot holes, bad acting or being boring. Not to see how many times it strays from a fraking book.

    and to whoever asked why was I bothering to post, it's because I used to love Harry Potter, it used to be my favorite series until the 3rd movie came out and these raving lunatics started bitching about how different everything was.
  • iec
    that's a stupid reason to stop liking a book. you're opinions are pretty weightless if they're so easily swayed.

    no one is raving. looks like you have a little trouble with interpreting what people write, and pulling a whole lot of assumptions out of your ass. nothing you've said about me is true in the slightest.

    Zack Snyder achieves something. he doesn't fail. I don't really see what's wrong with that...was there anything in his direct adaptations that was bad BECAUSE he followed the source strictly? did it just ruin his movies? it fucked up Watchmen because the studios cut down the run time, but I give him props for making a directors cut that is a TRUE adaptation into film. my only problem is when he diverts from the story largely just to pander to a more simple-minded audience. "this doesn't translate to film." most of the time, that means "stupid people won't get this, it'll be too much for their stupid brains, so let's make it easier on them." which is why, as I said, films like Harry Potter make tons of money, while films of any intellectual worth make far less. stupid people are stupid. weird, yet true.

    also, you don't seem to have understood everything I've said, and you're just repeating yourself, so that's cool. you're probably pretty far removed from ever being a filmmaker or being involved in the industry, so your opinion is even further from being of any consequence.
  • experiment626
    well based on everything you said you're even further removed than I am and the fact that you've had so many people going against you is proof that your opinions are of even less consequence than me. Besides, the main reason I stopped reading the books because Harry became a whiny little bitch, apparently it inspired fans like you.
  • You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I hope that you are not judging Harry Potter and its fans based on people like this guy.
  • plagueoftruth
    J.K. Rowling doesn't think the films are bastardizing her source material. She understands that books and films are two different things and must be view on their own merits. She quite likes the films. Why not you?

    You certainly have the right to dislike any film you wish, but it seems like your hunger for continuity is blinding you from appreciating these films as what they are: more interpretation than direct translation.

    There really would be no pleasing you, would there? You would prefer these films never got made at all. I'm glad you don't have your way because these films are special to many people, myself included.

    I just got home from watching 'Half-Blood Prince' and I would direct you to the scene where Slughorn tells the story of the fishbowl and the flower petal. That is a scene nowhere to be found in the book but it is beautiful and presents a tender and heartbreaking moment. I hope you can allow yourself to suffer through this 'bastardized' material to see the true worth in changing things for the sake of film.

    I love the book 'The Shining.' The book didn't have the two dead girls in the hallway or the elevator full of blood that are some of the film's most iconic and effective scenes. I love the film also. It's just a different animal. I'm sorry you don't see it the same way.
  • iec
    I already said I'm not going to be pleased, pretty clearly. I don't care if the films are made, though it would be great if we lived in a society that had actual integrity, and the films were better and truer because of that, but we don't.

    my hunger for continuity? I know exactly what a film is. and interpretation is not a good thing. it's OKAY to admit that it's not a good thing. you can say "Ok, I'm not going to criticize this because it's an interpretation," but you can't ignore that in avoiding the objective reality, you are giving yourself over to a diluted perspective of events, that's been warped by many other people's opinions.

    again: in truth, why are these movies made?
    1. because producers want money.
    2. because everyone involved, from director to actors, have egos that make them feel like they should be the ones to interpret a work of writing that is loved by millions. I know, I've wanted to adapt books into movies, I think I have the good ideas, I can do it well. that's me thinking about ME, and not about the author, not about the book, not about the experience of the literature on its own merit.

    sure, movies are great. but you have to admit that these things are true, and they do sully the experience, regardless of whether or not you flat out ignore them.

    as for adding entirely new dialog...man, what's the point? the point is, "I'm the writer, I think this wasn't written well enough the first time, I'm going to write it better now because this is what I think is appropriate." sure, film is collaboration. but if I'm going to write a book, and someone is going to change the fundamental structure of what I wrote because THEY think it's good, that's not okay to me. fine, it's okay to Rowling, but my work of art is my work of art, and at this point I would rather people appreciate it for what it is than only appreciate it for what someone else thinks it is. which is why I'd adapt my works myself, because then the original artist is taking his same intentions, and deciding what should be done with them.

    if Rowling is on set, saying "yes, these changes match my intentions," then that's great. to me it's sounded like she's passively saying "sure, sure, that's good, sure." maybe she's more engaged.

    it's just an exercise in egoism to think you're the one to interpret someone else's work for the rest of the world instead of letting them interpret it for themselves. it's also a testament to an inability to conceive of your own original work that can exist on its own merit, and be just as worthwhile to you and society.

    with that said, if I ever had the chance, I would probably interpret other author's works on the screen, and I am a hypocrite. but I can admit the faults in my own humanity, at the least.
  • Once again, I reiterate that films are about storytelling. You claim that David has to judge the films on their own grounds, and yet you claim that opinion on story elements adapted from the books are not valid criticism? So what if he says that the time travel element made the third film more interesting? Sure, that is straight from the books, but David is criticising the story of the films, in accordance with their continuity.

    P.S.: That much caps lock does not help your cause.
  • iec
    P.S.
    would *this* be better for you, because it's called *emphasis*. What is up with everyone always getting all "hur, you used caps lock, you're a douche." what? what exactly are capital letters implying in your mind?
  • It's generally accepted that capital letters usually signify anger/shouting.
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