Filmcast: Ep. 41)

Posted on Thursday, March 12th, 2009 by David Chen

In this very special episode of the /Filmcast, David Chen, Peter Sciretta, Devindra Hardawar and Adam Quigley are joined by writer/actor/director Kevin Smith to discuss Zack Snyder’s Watchmen. In this epic, 1 hour and 45-minute long discussion, the five of them delve into the faithfulness of the film adaptation, the effectiveness of the film’s soundtrack, the controversy surrounding the film’s ending, the sexuality of Rorschach, and the resemblance between Zack Snyder and Jesus.

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Update - Welcome Digg users! If you liked this episode of the /Filmcast, you might also enjoy the following:

Dan Trachtenberg from the Totally Rad Show talks soundtracks with David Chen

The /Filmcast Interviews Dave Gibbons (the original Watchmen illustrator)

Shownotes

Introduction

(01:26) Writer/actor/director Kevin Smith

Featured Review - WATCHMEN

(04:00) A faithful adaptation
(14:50) Zack Snyder as a messianic, Jesus-like figure?
(18:58) Different versions of Watchmen throughout the years
(22:38) Violence in Watchmen
(38:33) Watchmen’s soundtrack
(49:15) Rorschach’s sexuality
(56:00) What the hell happened at the end of Watchmen anyway?
(1:06:00) Watchmen’s box office performance and Zack Snyder’s juice
(1:13:20) The last great, graphic novel adaptation
(1:19:24) Watchmen’s casting
(1:32:00) The destruction of New York in films
(1:35:55) Closing thoughts

News Discussion

(1:46:00) Public Enemies Movie Trailer
(1:57:35) Fantastic Four to be Rebooted?
(2:04:00) Stranglehold movie in development
(2:09:45) Juan Antonio Bayona Directing Eclipse
(2:13:55) Fox To Strip Extra from Rental DVDs
(2:17:40) Wolverine Trailer

What Have We Watched

David Chen (2:29:40): Dawn of the Dead, Point Break
Devindra Hardawar (2:37:00): Synecdoche, New York
Adam Quigley (2:39:20): Summer Heights High

Credits

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Comments

r4i gold ds

If they end up doing the limited release of the Director's Cut, I'd be interested in having a 'revisited' review. Some of the stuff you mentioned being left out I remember was directly reference in the deleted scenes cut for time.Nice review anyway (I think you liked it?); is there any chance of a second opinion of someone who doesn't have the book to compare it to?

delsin

I never heard about CMS but right now i want to know more about it plz send me more information about CMS.

Saladinho

Is it any cuter than The Comedian's blood encrusted smiley face button resembling a watch? Or the mutilated dog's head resembling Rorschach's mask? In a comic repelete with symbolism and visual puns, it would have been mystifying to ignore AN ACTUAL SMILEY FACE ON MARS!

Mike

James did you really post six times? Congrats to you sir for not having a life. Who really posts six responses on a message board? It's funny that you talk shit on people who enjoyed the flick, calling them geeks, when I'm pretty sure that posting six times about a movie that you claim to not even like earns you that title in strides. You've done a great of making yourself look like an ass. You go have fun with The Rock man. I'm sure his brainless flick is better suited to your needs. With how many times you've posted here I have no doubt that you will check back and want to yet again talk more shit. Stop embarrassing yourself and move on already man. All you would do is just prove my point.

James

this movie is a flop...a big floppy dick..there take that last poster..kevin smith is a hollywood asshole..him the rest of hollywood retarts and go jerk off to this fucking movie anytime they want..me...id rather Race to Witch Mountian..thank you very much..they destroyed something pure like the graphic novel

Mike

Kevin is the man! I met him in Pittsburgh briefly during a screening he did for Zack And Miri Make A Porno and he was a good guy. I totally agree with everything that he said about Watchmen. A lot of people are bitching about really small shit. Some say it's too long and others say it's too short. Some say it's too much like the graphic novel and others say it's not enough. It's like Smith pointed out that in reality Snyder got this flick the closest it can possibly get to please both sides of the coin. It's getting increasingly harder these days to make unconventional films because people seem very content with formulaic movies. Some of the best shit that has come out there of recent years, like Fight Club or Donnie Darko, have been over looked by most people. Movie goers don't seem to feel like being challenged these days by something different. I really dug Watchmen from the perspective of both an avid cinema goer and as a fan of Allen Moore's novel. If this is not the best comic book movie out there then it's damn close to it. Oh and people gotta stop bitching about Manhattan's dick. I've heard more shit about his dick then the flick itself on some message boards. Dicks have been in art since the beginning of mankind so get over it. It's not even a real dick. It's CGI! Grow up America! There is some really hot scenes with female nudity too so it evens out. I would say that this is the must see movie of the season. So read the graphic novel and check out the movie. It's very worth it.

James

And one more thing!...why does it have to be this movie that now as the most dubious discintion in hollywood...as having the most fucking penis in a movie...why!? This thing had more close ups of cock then most of my porn movies..And I hate watching cock on the big screen it makes me want to vomit...i can handle it on little screens watching porn but not gigantic digital screens were im sitting up close and I have to deal with a fucking wang my face every two minutes...that was the only radical in thing in this movie...and I know its the graphic novel..but I got news for you..its not that fucking big and its not upclose especially in the mars scene..where you actually have important dialogue that needs to be said by our academy award winning actress Malin Akerman...between her dialogue and the cock shoved in my face i wanted to shoot myself...and they didnt even get to the butchered ending!

James

All that being said the first 20 minutes of this movie rocked...but after that forget it...it was slow steady decline to production hell...long winded scenes...cheesy action...melodramatic bull crap...why was the first 20 minutes so great and the rest movie so bad..i felt i watched two different movies...as soon as the detectives show up and start talking...o boy this movie is going to suck I know it...that feeling came over me..

james

All the godamn nerds love this movie..they are froaming at mouth at how faithful it is...and they orgasm over the new ending which in my opinion is so cheesy and hollywood..then say the movies ending better then what is it in the book...All you nerds out there who accidentally picked up this classic and read it need to shut up now! The ending sucked...why doesnt Dr.Manhattan go back to Ozymandias and have that great conversation ..that ends..nothing ever ends....they revamped the entire ending!...you dont even see Silk Spectre and Nite Owl spooning next to the pool..The next scene you see Sally Jupiter slapping Nite Owls ass and they arent even their new disguises, as she goes to get wasted!. I wish I wouldve brought a shotgun to this movie threatre so could have blew a hole in the projector screen thats what I thought about this movie..

James

Synder comes off as a total geek in this podcast....people walk out of this movie halfway through because they dont care what hell is going on screen...who cares that it was a faithful adaptation..it was a medicore movie...in my opinion it was even that faithful to the graphic novel..you could point about 100 things that arent faithful to this movie...so I think Kevin Smith needs shut up about this movie already

James

In this movie is so great why are peope walking out of the theatre in the middle of it.

WheaTon

Circle jerk. Book great- Movie OK. Maybe someday a great version of this source material will be made. Ditto for A. Horror.

John Aker

My Chemical Romance is NOT metal. It should NEVER be classified as such

DannyRabid

Yeaaaaaah buddy! You guys are so awesome. Thanks for the episode.

Vynson

Would have been interesting if someone in this conversation had read Watchmen more than one and a half times.

Timmaa

I can't believe not one post about Kevin's calling him "Ror SHARK" through the whole goddamn thing. Is everyone afraid to call him out on this? WTF? What a douche.

Reed

Did you guys realize he blew up MULTIPLE cities? Not just New York?

Reed

Kingdom Come is another DC monster. I'd rather see that than the Dark knight Returns. WB has taken the idea of DKR and put it in the new batman movies, but Kingdom Come would be completely different.

Reed

Oh and the cigarette to the eye.

Reed

"Everyone's a puppet. I'm just one who can see the strings."
"Possibly Homosexual, must investigate further."
"Does it work out, in the end?"-"End? Nothing ends. Nothing ever ends."

Lines I was looking forward to hearing.

Reed

It's actually in the book, for whatever that's worth

DWilli

I love Kevin Smith, but I'd rather listen to an honest review than a 2 hour Zack Snyder wankfest. The Watchmen movie has numerous flaws that shouldn't be overlooked just because Snyder had the balls to stick to the book. This podcast needed someone with a more rational, objective opinion who wasn't afraid to disagree with the big celebrity guest. Can we get a do over?

FrodO

Yes I think someone should have played the devils advocate and bash the movie a little so the podcast would have been richer. But is all ways good and fun to hear Kevin opinions.

flyff penya

thanks a lot

jc001

Listening to this podcast I learned that Kevin Smith likes to hear himself talk. Watchmen sucked! Cinematicaly it was a bad movie. I thought it was to drawn out and too long. If you think about it, Zack Snyder really didn't do anything. If he followed the book almost exactly page for page, panel for panel, then all the credit should go to Alan Moore. But come on Synder, show me some artistic talent and do something different. Just because it follows the graphic novel exactly, doesn't make it a great movie. I am a comic book fan, but because a film is based off of a comic book doesn't mean it has to be exact! As long as the characters stay true to the source, then I'm fine with whatever liberties the director takes with the story. Everybody loves The Dark Knight right? Is it exactly like the comic?... No. But why was is it good. Because Christopher Nolan used his artistic talents as a director, he made sure the characters were as close as possible to the original source, and told his version of The Dark Knight! That is a great director, That is how films are supposed to be made! To end... Watchmen Sucked!!!

FrodO

There is no The Dark Knight comic so you example is wrong.

Jc001

I know there is no Dark Knight comic book as far as it is written like a graphic novel. But Batman is a comic book character and has many issues. So there is an established myth behind batman. That being said, what I meant by "The Dark Knight right? Is it exactly like the comic?... No." was that the Dark Knight did not follow the stories in the Batman comics. So I am not wrong. Watchmen Sucked!

Matty Plant

I totally loved this film! I took my wife with me, and she was incredibly sceptical because Marley & Me was showing, I informed her of the 'Weakness' of said film and told her the plot, they buy a dog, they put it down the end.
I then told her about Watchmen, set in an alternate time line, The Cold War still imminent, and supers were outcast, and 'moody'. "Is it like that stupid X-Men, no not the cartoon, that silly film" she said, when a women says that you no somethings wrong lol (Points at Brett Ratner)
Anyway the film was awesome, as fan of the novel I was sceptical, but I wanted to see the awesomeness of Manhattan and Rorschach, I did not let me down, Snyder needs a medal, for this, yes the ending was different but it would have added another 30 minutes and percieved most people as to 'out there' hence the outer limits.
None the less my wife who likes to talk through films when something puzzles sat the whole way through no expression or emotion she was mesmorized.
If this film can have that effect on a person that mocks me for being 'nerdy' what can it do for others, it is a must see!

NinjinSteve

On the MARVEL properties that have a Watchmen/TDKR caliber stories I think that DAREDEVIL comes the closest with Frank Miller's the kinpgin/bullseye/elektra saga AND most of all BORN AGAIN. Definitely not on the same level as Watchmen and TDKR but the closest MARVEL has in my opinion.

BGKO18

My personal opinions is if you took out Dr. Manhattan and cut down some of the drawn out dialogue/monologues (mostly from Manhattan) and also had more of the Comedian, then I might have enjoyed this movie. I wouldn't place this ahead of The Dark Knight, I do know that.

BobbyPeru

Just a few guys sucking Zack Snyder's cinematic dick. It seems like they're forcing themselves to like it and apologizing for obvious flaws in the movie. It was tragically disappointing. All style, no substance. The thematic and emotional impact of Moore's work was completely forsaken for "coolness" and left me completely underwhelmed...which was then turned into a rage after My Chemical Romance came through the speakers. The movie was hackery.

thejerk

the music choices were stupid..it took the emotion out of the scenes.I liked the beginning..some parts looked cheesy (the guy on fire in jail)..i'm not happy

Chad Mourning

So, I didn't notice it at the time, but according to the wikipedia article, Vedit and Dr. Manhattan were working on Sub Quantum Unifying Intrinsic Devices (SQUIDs), so in the end the city was destroyed by a SQUID.

arnie

you can see it cut away to the word "SQUID" on a monitor(not ozzy's monitors) right before the flashback of the bomb being sent out. also you can see tentacle like electricity coming out of the doc manhattan bomb.
i kinda liked the ending in the movie better. people are so pissed that the squid isn't there but its like they don't really know what /how the squid killed everyone. smith had it right in the podcast the rest of the casters did not. its an alienesque squid that was created with the brain of a psychic and it died once it teleported to manhattan. teh monster dying and the fact that it had a psychic's brain created a shockwave that hit everyone in the vicinity and massacred them.

JordanFRAV

Downloading the podcast now, which should hopefully be done in 10 minutes and give me a bit of soothing bedtime listening till 4am. Be interesting to se...hear Kevin Smith's opinion of the film.

Peter Sciretta

To be fair, I was on a horrible hotel internet connection (which results in crappy audio quality), and David knew that, which was why I didn't speak up for most of the review.

Mavi

wasn't really a criticism it was more just an observation, plus its always good to hear you on the cast..

Mavi

Smith like to talk doesnt he! and peter got to say barely anything!! Great episode tho.. smith made a new BFF in Adam... i myself had never read watchmen but went to see the movie and i just dont know if i like it or not so i have order the grahic novel and hopefully will finish it and have to to see movie again before leaving the cinema..

illegalprelude

hey /Film cast, The Fifth Element on blu-ray is actually considered one of the most fantastic transfers out there but like you said, there was dust on the original transfer and they had a free replacement program 2 years ago lol when it came out, im not sure about now anymore though.

Kyle Voltti

The interesting thing about the change in Veidt's scheme is that it gives what Dr. Manhattan says about how the only way to save lives "here" is to remain silent. I feel like he's saying the only way to save Dan and Laurie was if they remained silent.

Joppe

Awesome podcast! I just watched Watchmen and came home to listen to it and I agree with everything you guys is saying. The movie a lot better than I was expecting, because it was so close to the novell.
Kevin Smith is awesome!

Buford Brown

Billie Holiday's "You're My Thrill" was Used In The Film. In The Scene Where Silk Spectre II Was Getting Gang-Banged By Doctor Manhattan... In The Graphic Novel It Was Used When Nite Owl & Silk Spectre II Rescue Those People From The Burning Building.

FrodO

I'd like to know how e1 thinks this movie is going to do outside the USA, I live in argentina and here no one cares about it, not even a 10th of how e1 went to see or liked TDK for example, last weeken Grand torino and He's just not that into you were 1st and 2nd in box office with Watchmen coming 3rd far away.
So I think this time around not many people outside the comic fans circles will go to watch the movie outside USA, whats your take on it?

NothingEverEnds

A few problems I wanted to chime in on from the podcast;

Yeah actually there is blood when Manhattan vaporizes people in the book (i.e. Rorschach's death). He does vaporize a man's head in Moloch's den (that scene actually exists as a brief flashback in one big panel), but the way the explosion is illustrated doesn't show enough information on whether it its gory or not. In Vietnam he's blowing up huge tracts of forest and not just individual soldiers (makes more sense in the graphic novel).

As for Rorschach's transformation scene with the meat cleaver, it just epitomized everything that went wrong in Snyder's adaptation. The unsophisticated blunt way of conveying Rorschach's insanity and letal force had more impact in Alan Moore's book just by having him walk out of a building and watch it burn in the glow of the night. That scene in the book somehow came cross as incredibly disturbing by seeing panels of a stuffed clothes manequin turn black and melt and having all the true violence occur off screen. It just goes to show how amazing the book was able to convey such horror and how hamfisted Snyder presented that scene. When I knew Snyder was making this film, I immediately thought of how he was going to handle the death of the two dogs (if included at all which I'm glad they were). In the comic, all we need to see is the clever raised in the air and the single panel earlier of the dog's head split open to be completely horrified. I felt an emotional impact when reading that moment in the book. The nastiest act of violence is never shown and yet all the important emotional and narrative information gets across clear as day. But when I saw the movie and the clever goes into the man's head repeatedly and not the dogs like I originally feared, I knew that the film had essentially done the same thing; taking a cheaper, less sophisticated path that was ultimately a disgusting filmmaking technique and not a horrifying element of the story. It was empty, shocking because of sheer gore, but empty.

Goobity

I see your point, but in 1986, the violence that was in Watchmen was far more graphic than anything else in the medium. This was years before Vertigo and the like. If it were published today, I'm sure those scenes would get turned up a notch or two. Alan Moore is not afraid to push the boundaries (read From Hell). He just wasn't allowed to at the time.

FrodO

Watchmen is violent but in a metaphoric level, if you look at the novel again you will see that there are few frames showing explicit violence, it's suggested, the gn smells like violence but it's mostly not shown.

Pwaters

This review and the Dark Knight review were the two best /filmcasts ever. Period.

W.THE.F?

God fuckin' dammit. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but it still comes up when I hear people talking about the movie out around town. It's WATCHMEN not "the WATCHMEN". What may be the smallest most insignificant detail to everyone else still reverberates with agonizing clarity in mind; it's a single word, two syllables, and yet somehow, after twenty years and a film that uses the same title people can still manage to fuck up the name. Forget the meaning behind the difference of "WATCHMEN" vs. "the Watchmen", forget whether or not other people will even care or not, forge that Snyder added confusion to the mix by changing the crimebusters to the watchmen, it's the idea that our culture can be so horrendously dumb that it consistently fucks up a ONE WORD title that is starting to depress the hell out of me. What. The. Fuck? I know people will respond saying it's not worth getting pissed over, or that anyone who feels the same way should stop taking it so seriously, but come on. WATCHMEN. Is it really that hard? If one can't be focused enough to get that right 5/10 times, how on earth could they be expected to focus on all the crazy shit going on in the story. What the hell is up with the phenomenon of people adding "the" to a title? Sure, "the Watchmen movie" makes sense as it's signifying the film itself, but when I hear "did you see the Watchmen?" I feel like fucking exploding in Antarctica.

Bucher Bear

Yeah, I have to agree with above poster. I mean, this is a case where it's important to have someone who doesn't like the movie just because that seems to be the general reaction among critics and audiences. Would have made for a more interesting discussion.

Robspartan

...it would garner critical acclaim and larger audiences, which it has not.

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