Watchmen creator Alan Moore is notorious for not being involved in the big screen adaptations of his comic book properties. Director Zack Snyder told fans at Comic Con last year that the best he can hope for is that Alan Moore will someday watch the DVD and say, “You know, they didn’t fuck it up that bad.”
“We all want to please Alan, and I think that’s a noble thing to want to do. There’s nothing wrong to get the guy who frickin’ created the thing to not hate it, I don’t think that’s an outrageous thing to want,” said Snyder. “I think the approach is to assume that the movie is better, and that’s a mistake. I would never make any assumptions.”
And now that the Watchmen teaser trailer has been unleashed, has Moore changed his mind? Nope. Moore tells Entertainment Weekly that he still has no interest in the movie.
“I would rather not know [about the movie],” said Moore. “[Zack Snyder] may very well be [a very nice guy], but the thing is that he’s also the person who made 300. I’ve not seen any recent comic book films, but I didn’t particularly like the book 300. I had a lot of problems with it, and everything I heard or saw about the film tended to increase [those problems] rather than reduce them: that it was racist, it was homophobic, and above all it was sublimely stupid. I know that that’s not what people going in to see a film like 300 are thinking about but… I wasn’t impressed with that… I talked to Terry Gilliam in the ’80s, and he asked me how I would make Watchmen into a film. I said, ”Well actually, Terry, if anybody asked me, I would have said, ‘I wouldn’t.”’ And I think that Terry [who aborted his attempted adaptation of the book] eventually came to agree with me. There are things that we did with Watchmen that could only work in a comic, and were indeed designed to show off things that other media can’t.”
Moore says that “nothing good can come of almost any adaptation” and that “there’s nothing that could get me interested in Hollywood” of “the American comics industry again”. Don’t worry folks, just because Moore is bitter, doesn’t mean the film won’t kick ass. You can read the whole interview with Moore on EW.com.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I am with Alan Moore, the trailer did nothing for me.
Nite Owl looks stupid with the eyes.
Let’s hope the second trailer is better.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I really like Alan Moore.
And 300 was sublimely stupid.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
To be fair, I can’t really blame Moore.
From Hell, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, V for Vendetta, especially Constantine (Hellblazer) have all been far removed from the original material.
Don’t forget this is a guy who writes a one page description for a single panel, he likes having control over his creations.
Prickly. Stubborn. I don’t think he’d disagree with these labels. But we all gotta admit he comes up with some of the best works in his genre. Long may he continue.
He has been treated badly under the original contracts signed, but without him sticking up for his rights those that followed could not have demanded better deals with the majors.
My only hope is one day we will see the future adventures of Halo Jones…
July 19th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
that is awesome.
the watchmen movie is going to suck.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
In all honesty, I don’t like Moore. I love his work and respect him as an artist but as a person, I don’t like him at all.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
You know, i’ve said the same thing every time they make an alan moore book into a movie. They guy is just afraid that comics are going away, which I don’t think is true. But to say that you can do things in a comic that you can’t do in a movie, in the day and age, I just don’t think is true. He keeps saying that line over and over, everytime this issue comes up, but never really goes into saying WHAT his comics do that can’t be done on film. He’s too overprotective of it. Alan, buddy, comics aren’t going away.
I talked about this issue a few years ago at a con with J. Micheal Strazkinsky (sp?) and he is the complete opposite. He said that he never wrote anything that he wouldn’t be ok with it being translated into something else because he, like Neil Gaimen, see each media as a new and seperate and beautiful thing. Alan Moore, while talented, is fucking full of himself and pretentious comic snob. I never got why he can’t get over himself and see people wanting to see a movie of his work as an honor. I think, honestly, that to make Watchmen or something into a movie makes it more accessible to more people, people who are deemed by Moore as unworthy unless they read the book.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
@ Krackajap
agreed
July 19th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
@Krackajap
because you know him so well.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Moore is getting older and more bitter. And he’s turning into those guys who can’t adapt to new methods or ways because he’s too stubborn now to do so…
I love what Moore’s done for comics. And the grooves he created for others to follow. But his crybaby shit can stop now. I don’t care what he has to say at this point in regards to comic films. Because he’s made this apparent years ago. If he wants nothing to do with the film adaptations? Then stop fucking whining about it already. At the end of the day, these are DC properties. If he cares so much about “his” work. He should try to work on publishing with a house that gives him enough freedom to do what he wants with them. Allowing him to decline films being made from his writing if he so choose (See: Mignola)
He’s been invited before to consult, but declined. Atleast Gibbons is on board the Watchmen film and he has as much to say about the “look” of the film as Moore does. So he didn’t like 300? Big fucking whoop. Miller was asked to be a co-director with Rodriguez and Tarantino. And he took it up after seeing what they did and look how well that turned out?
From Hell and V For Vendetta were very well done. The other adaptations were bad. I’m looking forward to the Watchmen film. Because the trailer was great and Snyder does “care” about the material. The trailer literally had scenes panels lifted from the pages.
Drop the, “Look everyone, I’m still here!” shit Moore. We heard it year after year. Shit or get off the pot.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I think we have to respect the man’s own feelings about his creation. Personally, I don’t like it when authors fawn over subpar adaptations, which is what most of them do because they want a cut of the merch or whatever. Moore is honest, and that’s refreshing.
Oh, and V for Vendetta may have been an ok movie, but it utterly missed the point of the novel.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
He’s a closeminded!
Ok! he painted a Monalisa of graphic novels, but what is wrong with an sculptor trying to “adapt it” into a sculpture?? No one is ruining the fucking comic! or trying to improve it or make something “better” than the comic… no.
Snyder is creating a whole NEW thing! why don’t give him a chance?? see it, and then say how much it sucks or how much it rules in it’s own way as a MOVIE.
Moore fails to see that a movie is a complety different thing from a graphic novel, they don’t work and can’t be seen in the same way.. what a prejudging genious jerk!
July 19th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Alan Moore is dead on about everything including 300. It was very racist and very homophobic and in the film version especially very, very neo-conservative. was it a coincidence Snyder added the scene with Queen Gorgo begging for more troops and support of the war? I think not. Anyway, Gilliam was right not to touch the thing. It only works in one medium especially since its referecing the history of that particular medium. It should have been left untouched, and Snyder’s vision seems especially unimpressive.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
@ C.A.
The guy has made some fresh pieces of work, that turned stale after Hollywood got their hands on them. I don’t think you can disagree there.
V & From Hell were good standalone films, but missed much of the subtext. For Moore the subtext is everything, else he would not be doing such a applauded job.
As for “He should try to work on publishing with a house that gives him enough freedom to do what he wants with them.” - He has done exactly that, occasionally being bought back into a major publisher by acquisition and not by choice.
I do not doubt he has very strong views, is genre-elitist, and dislikes the mainstream. I would argue this is what makes his work as good as it is.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
this Moore fucker is awesome. Zack Snyder is the biggest hack director. Dawn of the Dead was god awful, and 300 was even worse. wow, a bunch of slow-mo, wannabe epic voice-overs, and more CGI blood than a computer can handle. great. and The Watchmen looks lame as balls.
I dont give a fuck about The Watchmen graphic novel or the movie. but Alan Moore seems to be quite awesome.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
“and Snyder’s vision seems especially unimpressive.”
How much was that time machine?
July 19th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Raerth,
Yeah it’s too bad that no one wants to adapt the other works. It’s great that’s he now drudging up this elitest stuff. But did he seriously think his other popular properties weren’t going to be touched in some way? He acts like this suddenly “happened” and doesn’t have any control over his DC properties.
If I was on his side of the fence and had that attitude. You either say “fuck it all” and move on. or partake in the project to have it come out as close as possible to the material.
It’s as easy as that. Look, I love what Moore as has done. But I also know he wants to live like Che Guevara while writing comic books. But comics as a “whole” are a mainstream media. You can only control so much of it. Unless you really own anything having to do with it.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Read the article. It’s a nice read. Moore is the man. Trust him!
July 19th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
To be honest, it’s not fair to say something like “Alan Moore should stop whining.”
I mean, it’s not like he’s getting on the pulpit here, people just keep ASKING him what they think about his movie adaptations because they full well know that he hates all the movie adaptations and they’ll get a good sound bite. Big surprise, they always get just what they want.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
At the very end of the day. Comics and films can be easily separated into two categories. No one will “ever” be happy with it. The hardcore comicbook fanbase will always have a problem with the film versions and the non-comicbook crowd will love or hate it depending on how the film is executed.
Look at how rabid the LOTR fanbase was when Jackson said he was planning to cut out one fucking hobbit and made a female elf take the lead in place of a male one. And yet the films turned out amazing.
We can only hope for a happy medium between the two works and hope they do touch upon some of the original design in a respectful way.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I think the conversation ends at it’s his work. He’s not exactly been treated well in the past as far as film goes. I think the fact that he doesn’t come out and sling mud and sue people and try and block these projects is a credit to him. It’s him saying hey I don’t like this one bit, but I wont stop another person from being creative and trying something. Just leave his name off the projects and do your best to stay true to the source materials.
Now that I have seen the trailer three times in the theatre I have learned two things. Normal people have no idea what “Watchmen” even is. At one point someone whispered oh there making the flash or hey thats wonder woman. Secondly, this film feels like it’s going to be either a home run or a strike out. I don’t think there will be a gray area (i.e. Daredevil / Spider Man 3.) People will either latch onto it and love it for it’s visual challenges and amazing story. Or people will hate it for being too CGI/Colorful and out landish story.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
@ C.A.
I think you’re approaching this arse-backwards. From all accounts I can find Moore was a willing participant with the first couple of films, until he saw what had happened to them.
Frank Miller is notable for having his work adapted faithfully. You cannot say this is or was the norm else people would not comment on it.
Moore is a perfectionist, for better or worse. He also has experience prior to the film adaptations of a company screwing him over for a quick buck. To call his stand whiny I think belittles his principle, and I prefer artists to stand up for their principles.
“To bad noone wants to adapt his other stuff”.. I think most of his new creations have now been adapted, bar Halo Jones. Are you now blaming him for not being more productive?
July 19th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I think I should also point out that I hold high hopes for Watchmen.
The trailer does not hold true to the flavor of the graphic novel, but I think it’s intended instead to show fans some well known scenes & catch the interest of the general public.
Think Kip has it dead right, this will either be a flop or a major hit. I fear that too much will be lost in transition to celluloid, but my fingers will remain crossed.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I’m not blaming him for anything. The way I see it, if he has such a problem with it. He’s got two easy ways he can handle this. And he’s done one already for years, by not accepting royalties based on his properties.
He’s wrritten great comicbooks. But I tire of him trying to act like he’s Abbie Hoffman. I’m not shooting him down for standing up for his work. I want artists to fight for their creations. But a lot of his creations are also made for corporations in the business of selling comics. It’s whiney to me when he does this every year. He’s been prattling on about this crap for a while now.
No one’s putting a gun to his head.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
I can’t tell if Kurts was making a snarky, sarcastic comment or if he was just a moron, but either way it was funny!
July 19th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Not a gun to his head, but a mic to his mouth.
Journalists like a controversial headline, and know he will supply one. He’s not knocking down our doors to tell us what he thinks, but I don’t blame him for giving his opinion when asked.
Probably the same way I don’t mind you whining about your disapproval of his stance ;)
July 19th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
When someone refused to take part of the election and doesn’t cast his vote, you tell them that they forfeited their right to bitch about the outcome since they didn’t participate in the process.
Moore refusing to take part in the adaption of any of his works so he forfeits the right bitch about the outcomes. I understand why. If I recall correctly he once tried to give input but was ignored. But, unless he decides help fix the process and become part of the solution, i really don’t want to hear him complain about it anymore.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I think that adaptations of graphic novels should only be made if they bring something new to the material. The Dark Knight expanded the batman mythology by introducing concepts and ideas absent or underplayed in the comics and brought a fresh look at the material. As for Watchmen, the only thing Zack Snyder looks like he contributed was motion and sound. I highly doubt his version will uncover any nuances or add any depth that can’t be uncovered by reading the novel.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
I agree with Drewbdoo, he has put out some great stuff but he’s also overrated, needs to get over himself.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
P.S. Agreed krackajap.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
“I highly doubt his version will uncover any nuances or add any depth that can’t be uncovered by reading the novel.”
Why would you? The graphic novel is perfect. Snyder only means to translate it as much as possible onto a movie screen. And he’s stated this many times. He values the written material so much. That he’s using the artwork as actual storyboards for the film itself.
@ krackajap
I agree with your analogy.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
such a bitter man
July 19th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
@ Captain Awesome
But thats exactly my point. his adaptation is pointless because its just going to be a castrated version of the book. When Greengrass was on the project it seemed promising since we were told it would be an update and retelling set in modern times. That would’ve added something or at least given us something that the novel didn’t do. Otherwise its just like a bad tracing of the original work.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
At least he loves The Wire. He gets points for that…
July 19th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
>sarcasm< because any character that expresses the fact that machismo and being macho is actually distinct from homosexuality is a “homophobe.” I adore 300 for proclaiming unabashed manhood. Our society is a feminized and an emasculated one, and the more people insist that every red-blooded man fully embrace the idea that boys having sex with other boys is normal and manly, the more we will see material like this that rebels from blaise acceptance. Let homos be homos if you must, but do not insist that no one can loudly state their own hetero-machismo without a culture-bashing from the thought-gestapos.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
“When Greengrass was on the project it seemed promising since we were told it would be an update and retelling set in modern times.”
Sue, are you serious. The same douche who creates any scene involving any actual movement of story-telling through the use of jarring shakey-cam?
Wait, so let me get this straight. You’re okay with Greengrass “re-imaging” The Watchmen. But fault Snyder for trying to follow it so closely?
…What the fuck are you smoking?
July 19th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
I hope for the sake of SUe’s argument that none of his favorite movies were books first.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
you gotta admire Moore for sticking to his principles.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Am I missing something about Alan Moore? I mean, he did sell the rights to adapt his graphic novels, did he not? I’m sure it’s crushing to see someone you created destroyed by other people interpreting it, but if that’s such a inconvenience for him why does he keep agreeing to let people try? One of the things I respect about James Ellroy is that while he enthusiastically promotes the good adaptations of his novels (which, really, just means LA Confidential) he makes a point of keeping his mouth shut when he doesn’t approve the finished product. His feeling is that he gave up the right to bitch about it when he cashed the check. Maybe it’s a different situation for Alan Moore, maybe he doesn’t control the rights to his comics, but until I understand the difference I think he sounds like a petulant jackass. I agree with him abut 300 though; that shit was terrible.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Moore is a genius, period. Cranky and bitter, but one hell of writer all the same. Sure his books ‘can’t be done’ in film. That’s why they’re books.
At best,, film adaptations are two-hour trailers for massive works like Watchmen and From Hell, and others. If you want panel by panel…read the book.
Just don’t bitch when the adaptation was other than what YOU envisioned. It never will be!
July 19th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
I respect Moore’s work but what Zack Snyder’s done with cinema is amazing. Snyder cares about the material and I’m looking forward to Watchmen. And I loved V for Vendetta, though that wasn’t Snyders.
As for comics to film adaptations: Has Mr. Moore ever seen The Dark Knight, Batman Begins, Spider Man 2, X2, Hellboy among others? These films are perfect examples of great cinema.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Moore’s position is one that he is welcome to have. I’m willing to give Snyder another chance, it’s not his fault Frank Miller is a bigot.
My only hope is that Moore is gratefull for the film on some level when the Watchmen graphic novel sales increase, and he gets whatever minor bump in royalties from it.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
@ bryan
As I understand it DC controls the rights to all of his works while they are in print. Since they haven’t actually gone out of print, Moore has no control over what happens to his work.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
@ bryan : Alan Moore owns (at least the publishing rights) to League and From Hell. He refused, as far as I know, involvement on both projects. The others are not his to gripe about, since he doesn’t own the properties. D.C. does.
I’m a fan of his work, but he doesn’t really have a leg to stand on in this case.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Firstly - POLITICS!!!!
Secondly - Frankly, I find it rude that he’ not paying attention and chooses to remain ignorant about this project. Especially towards someone who gives a damn about his story - and likes it enough to put so much effort into it. It seems Zack Snyder is doing the best job that he can on this adaptation. A similar situation comes to mind with Studio Ghibli’s “Tales From Earthsea”. The books were written by Ursula Le Guin, and while the Ghibli film didn’t follow the books exactly, Le Guin still appreciated the work and enjoyed the movie for what it was.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
I don’t really get people who are saying he’s “become bitter” because this has always been his stance on Hollywood as far back as I remember. And Greengrass and Gilliam are both much more compentant filmmakers than Snyder and probably would have spat out a better version. Snyder is just the genre boy toy of the moment. By the way, the Smashing Pumpkins song from the trailer is off the Batman & Robin soundtrack. So that and also Ozymandias’ nipples would make two Schumacher references. I hope the Comedian has great Arnold-esque one liners like “Here’s the PUNCH line” SMACK!
July 19th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Hating on “300″? Wonderful!
Showing love to “The Wire”? Marvelous!
I always thought this man was one of the greatest minds on this planet and now I have further proof.
People call him bitter? Bitter people are superficial. Moore isn’t that type. A guy who hands over his rightful share of the profits of this upcoming movie to his collaborator Dave Gibbons is a man who truly stands by his beliefs and lives by his own code. Hey, I loved the trailer for “Watchmen” and now have more (no pun intended) hope for the film, but I think its cool that Moore himself refuses to have anything to do with it. Guys like Snyder should just get on with it and stop seeking the man’s approval. It ain’t happening.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Captain Awesome, Moore has moved on from DC and is working with anothe rpublishing company that gives him more freedom. He’s been doing that for years now actually. Also you can’t accuse him of constatntly crying/whining because the man rarely does interviews in the first place.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
@ TheDaftPunk
What about Ursula saying this about the Sci-Fi channel series:
” I can only admire Mr Halmi’s imagination, but I wish he’d left mine alone… I wonder if the people who made the film of The Lord of the Rings had ended it with Frodo putting on the Ring and ruling happily ever after, and then claimed that that was what Tolkien “intended…” Would people think they’d been “very, very honest to the books?” “
July 19th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Leave Moore’s work alone. It’s his creation, he made Watchmen who’s got any right messing around with the man’s work? I’m all for you Alan, I belive that what you’re are doing is the right thing and I don’t see you as a cynical old man, it’s hard standing up to what you are believing in espacially in the arena of art. You’ve reminded me of the integrity that we must hold on as artists.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
As the real Maria von Trapp said of The Sound of Music: “It’s a nice story. But it’s not MY story.”
That saga was even closer to her heart because it actually happened, yet she was still grateful enough for the “homage” and lauded and accepted it for what it was, all the while noting and keeping the differences dear.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
@ Potato :
” It’s his creation, he made Watchmen who’s got any right messing around with the man’s work? ”
Well, he wrote Watchmen while under a freelance contract at DC Comics. They own every bit of it. He may receive royalties from it’s publication, but he sold himself out of any creative rights he may have had over 20 years ago.
It has nothing to do with artistic integrity.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
@ all who are saying watchmen will suck…
fine. how would you make it? since you guys are obviously filmmakers, what has snyder missed that you would bring to the table to make this - one of the most difficult works of literature to adapt - a great film? i’m really looking for a solid answer here, because anyone can bitch and complain, but very few have actual solutions, and i’d bet none of you do. i love and respect alan moore, but i’m supporting snyder 100% for his hard work and catering to the fans.
@ cap awesome
what are we gonna do bout some of these goddamn haters on this site?!
July 19th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
you know what? i’m going to go against the grain and call moore a dillhole. HE was the one that sold the rights to watchmen. if he was so fucking concerned about how they would’ve mishandled HIS STORY, he would have told fox to piss off. so eff alan moore. i don’t give a crap how much he wants to slander the movie. if he really gave a shit, he would’ve tried to be involved and steer them in the proper direction, but since he isn’t…eff him. if he doesn’t like the way it’s turning out, who cares? HE let HIS story out of HIS hands. he SOLD it and we’re supposed to feel bad for him BECAUSE THEY CORRUPTED HIS STORY?
alan moore, if you read this…QUIT WHINING. no one held a gun to your head. no one told you to sell watchmen. you could’ve sat back and told everyone to piss off, but hey, you didn’t. YOU CHOSE TO SIT BACK. so you know what? fuck you. i don’t care what you say about the adaptations of your books, because frankly it’s not like you do. and even now in my drunken stupor, i can see what a tool you are. you hypocritical jerk. so you know what? quit talking smack about the movies adapted from your books, because i don’t want to hear it. your opinion is meaningless to me.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
holy crap i’m loaded.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
@ aaron
“so you know what? fuck you.”
laughed my ass off man, too funny.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
You’d be bitter roo if you were screwed out of the rights to your life’s work.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:08 am
you know what, whiskey? he willingly let the rights to his books go. if he was so freaking concerned about them tainting his vision he should have told the film studios to piss off, so i don’t care. he’s just a bitter prick who had a dump truck full of money dumped on him. if he doesn’t want to go see it, fine, but he willingly played a part in having his book adapted. as far as i’m concerned, he has essentially given up his right to bitch about whatever comes out.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:09 am
p.s: i am still drunk.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Back at Goobity.
Yeah i know that, but those are just the rules of the game, if I’m not wrong the situation is different with his America’s Best Comics line, where he still has creative rights to those characters. I think the thing we’re forgetting is that Moore has had a long standing dispute with DC. He probably never expected them to mess around with his stuff. The debate over rights for comic book creators and publishers have been a long standing one. Kirby is just another example of this. This is something that’s been a negative factor for all those involved artists of the industry. I’m not entirely sure about the creative rights granted to publishers or artists, but all I know is that Watchmen is a different breed of comic, its one entirely designed to be a comic book, from the usage of text, lack of sound effects text, panelizations etc. and I can totally understand why Moore wants it to be kept a comic. It’s not like the Batman franchise where its all up for re-interpertation, having gone through so many variations of the character.
I know that DC holds the rights to Watchmen, they can do anything they bloody hell want to do with the characters. They can make a Watchmen 2, which would really ruin it for me. But what’s the point of going through this film without Moore? It just feels so wrong for me and I can totally understand why Moore’s upset. What they did to V for Vendetta was so upsetting. Moore’ probably made a big mistake going to DC with Watchmen, you can say that he was foolish to do so and that he was selling his integrity, but think about it. If you were Moore and with the little you knew about what DC would do, why wouldn’t you go to one of the most prestigous publishers in comics with a work that would eventually become a postmodern masterpiece. I think the only thing that would have been on your mind was to reach the widest possible audience.
Its a mistake that Moore is severely regretting and it was a risk that artists of all the various mediums take, for me as a painter, its the gallery system, for someone in film its the studios etc. For Moore, it’s DC. I’m not saying that the publishers are evil or anything, to them its just buisness, what’s the hype? I’ve given up on the idea that things will ever work out totally between comic publishers and comic artists. ‘Integrity’ was probably too idealistic a word to put up there, but what I meant by it, and the reason why I appreciate Moore’s standing is quite simple. I admire his love for his creation and I see Watchmen as Moore’s, no doubt DC owns it, but Moore penned it, no publisher would have come up with that in a million years. He stands by it as if it were his child and I don’t know if you’ve made anything artwise, but to see something you’ve made and to see it being burnt, scratched etc. Well that just ain’t right.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:42 am
I remember I was one of the first to hate on Indy 4 and then everyone actually saw the film and finally came down from their Lucas nostalgia high. Same with this film, there will be mega backlash come May. I’m a man of my word.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:52 am
@ potato
no, no, no. if moore cared so much about his book, why would he sell it to dc? if watchmen was simply not just another cash cow, why wouldn’t he have released it on his terms? it’s not like there wasn’t another option for releasing his book. it’s not like he couldn’t have set up his own publishing company and did it himself. if he cared so fucking much, that’s precisely what he should have done and accepted no compromises.
but guess what? he sold his property to dc, so fuck him. this book he claims to care so deeply about isn’t even his anymore. it’s under corporate ownership BY HIS OWN HAND. he gave it away willingly. fuck him. no matter how good it is, i don’t care. he so easily gives up the rights to his intellectual property to corporate scum, and then whinges that the corporate scum are trying to do something with it.
fuck you, alan moore, you whiny bitch. if you cared so much, you would get off your lazy, bearded ass and have done something to prevent the so-called travesties that are being perpetrated on your work, but you didn’t. all you did was complain. just like the rest of the god damn internet.
let me state that it’s not like there wasn’t a fucking market for alan moore books when watchmen was released. he could’ve sold this property DI-FUCKING-Y, but he didn’t. HE STOOD BY THE CORPORATE COCKSUCKERS. he stood by them for v and he stood by them for watchmen.
if he was so concerned about his work, he should not have signed that contract. though dc wasn’t the megalith back then it is now, he still should’ve seen something like this coming. alan moore was definitely old hand when it came to writing comics when it came time to put out watchmen and to say that he wasn’t to expect that this huge corporation would attempt to secure its assets is preposterous. alan moore knew just what he was doing when he sold off his rights to his book.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:29 am
orange cinema,
I’m but one man. I can only do so much. I love how SUe is already comparing this to Indy 4 and was actually “okay” with Greengrass taking this project over Snyder (wtf?). As far as I’m concerned SUe is “Joe Quesada” in disguise.
I’ve said what I had and needed to be said. Moore needs to put a helmet on and move-the-fuck-on. The Watchmen is one of my bibles in terms of comicbook writing and art. And I’m completely amped about the movie. So far everything I have seen and heard from Snyder. Makes me believe he plans to lay his life down for the material. Once he got Gibbons on board it was easier on my mind. Once I saw the costumes, it got even easier. Once I saw the trailer?
The storm in my head calmed. And now it’s turned into pure excitement.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:00 am
oh please, alan moore is just bitching because he’s became an old fart and hasn’t done anything but comic books. great comic books, but still comic books. i don’t think any writer wants to do only comics, and to tell me a story can work better drawn on paper and not on screen is just bullshit.
i’ve always hated that guy, a grown man “worshiping” a fucking snake god and having a hair/beard like an aging member of a hair metal band is just pathetic.
still, i respect his work.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:51 am
i’m sorry but if you think that comic books or graphic novels can only capture what the watchmen sets out the explore then you are wrong. how is a medium the relies heavily on visuals no able to adapt itself into film?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:41 am
If the movie sucks I hold Moore entirely responsible.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Entertaining discussion right here. =D
July 20th, 2008 at 6:43 am
LMAO,,, on reading the comments.
That picture of Alan just screams , fuck you , this is my bus stop!!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 7:10 am
Oh, one more thing that occured to me. I really like how Moore says that films can’t do what comics do, and then goes on to say that the the reasons he didn’t see 300 were because they amplified the things he didn’t like about the comic. Uh, hypocrite maybe?
July 20th, 2008 at 8:13 am
I don’t know about racism or homophobia in 300, but I do agree with him that the movie sucked.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Of all the adaptations made of Moore’s work, this one is attempting to be as true as possible to the original works. Additionally, I think that Snyder and the producers have insomuch acknowledged that it would be impossible to adapt 200+ pages of panels into a 2 hour movie. But, what can be done with BluRay and the net, is a mixed media presentation that, if Moore can keep an open mind, EXPAND the experience beyond the 23 year old book.
I don’t know Alan Moore, but I’ve been reading his material since the early Swamp Thing days. I think there’s been better writers in his wake, but they’re only better BECAUSE of Alan Moore. He’s been the inspiration of an entire generation of creators who raised the bar for storytelling in this medium. However, while the newer generation and some of his peers have opened their minds, he appears to have chosen to keep his focus on just one way to tell a story.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Snyder really has nothing going for himself other then creating some pretty mediocre remakes/adaptations, and although I did enjoy the Watchmen trailer, I still imagine it will be as shallow and forgettable as his other work.
Alan Moore is an asshole. For good reason? Yes. Alot of his work has been butchered cinematically and the entire legal affair with the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is enough to disillusion anyone. But at the end of the day, an asshole is still an asshole, so if he wants to continually play the bitter, misunderstood artist card, then he deserves nothing less in return.
Though the problem with /film is that it tends to exist entirerly in its own little reality, where every article gets immediate knee-jerk, black or white reactions from passionate geeks who call films about grown men running around in bat costumes “masterpieces”. Its hard to take anything too seriously around here.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:45 am
I love Moore! But I also love Frank Miller! I liked 300, and I love Watchmen. You gotta respect Moore’s scruffy yet honest attitude. I agree with him completely when he mentioned all of the adaptations today and how almost nothing in Hollywood is original anymore.
p.s. I live in Missouri and I near St.Louis, there is a church of Scientology, I had to drive by it the other day and noticed demonstrators outside wearing V for Vendetta/Guy Fawkes masks…awesome.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:18 am
What’s a Masterpiece in your eyes Pill?
July 20th, 2008 at 11:19 am
How many of you have recently read your copies of Watchmen?
I know i hadn’t in a while. So, in the interest of this debate, i went and dusted it off from my shelf, to see what those “things” were in Watchmen that couldn’t be done in film. From what I gathered, Moore hadn’t been so protective of his other properties as much as he had been Watchmen, which is why it hadn’t been made until now. So what made Watchmen so special?
As i flip through the book, i was reminded that most of the in depth backstory, the nuance, the greatness, and “novelty” of the book comes from the fact that it is filled with pages and pages of documents, newspaper clippings [like interview with Veidt in Nova Express], notes, chapters of books [like excerpts from Under the Hood, Hollis Mason's biography], photographs — all presented not in a frame, not as part of the art, but as a page of a book, spliced into the story. These text heavy inserts in every chapter give backstory, not plot, a lot of which has little to no significance to the plot at hand, but has major significance for the tone, and the world that is created, the motivations for the characters, and the reason behind who is left to do what is needed, not to mention why their actions are needed, or why they are reluctant to do so. There are quotes from Genesis [the bible chapter, not the band] lining the bottom of the page. Poems, too, like the apropos Ozymandias, by Percy Bysshe Shelley. This level of detail, of nuance would be damn near impossible to integrate fully onto the screen. How would you integrate full chapters of a book, unrelated to the moments at hand, full of simply emotion and confession, into a visually moving picture?
This is not even including the pacing that can possibly only be given by the comic genre. Take the end of chapter 12, where [SPOILER!] frame by frame, the newspaper man, finally hugging and embracing the comic kid, is slowly disintegrated by the psychic boom orchestrated by Veidt. It takes eight frames, eight steps to disintegrate them. Each frame, they come closer together, falling apart until all that is left of them is the shape of the blood smear of the Comedian’s smiley pin. Then nothing. How could you possibly translate something like that?
That’s what Moore is protecting. He has said in interviews that he wants you to be able to see those things, and flip the pages back, to go see all the connections. Go see how many times the blood smear and smiley appear in different ways [it's a lot, by the way.] To flip back and read some of Hollis Mason’s book, to finally realize what he’s talking about. To be able to revisit and research the plot, the era, the world, is what he designed the book to be able to let you do. You cannot, cannot do that in a theatre, where the projectionist hits GO and it unfolds before you.
This is not to say the movie will be no good. It could be a very good movie, for movie’s sake. It will just not be anything and everything that makes Watchmen so great, and ultimately, unfilmable. I can see why he wouldnt want to take part in recreating something he already perfected, knowing he could only get an arm’s length away. How frustrating must that be? THAT is why Moore takes the position he does. And I would tend to agree.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Nice AJ, I need to get a Guy Fawkes mask to wear. !! 8-)
Pill, your kinda diggin the Wathcers, but Batmans lame ? ? ?
July 20th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
WATCHMEN is going to fuckin rule!!!
please people we got to think out
of the box, i’m just as big a fan of
the regular superhero flick and give
WATCHMEN a chance… Mr. MOORE
is entitled to his opinion and nobody
is shoving WATCHMEN down his
throat….he had the same reaction to
his other movie… the LEAGUE of
EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN, But hey,
why so SERIOUS (YOU’RE STILL GETTIN’ PAID!)
July 20th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
P.S. , I just love these C.A. and O.C. team ups!!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Is it me or does MOORE look like
a young SARUMAN??????????????
see you @ COMIC CON … PUTAS!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
@ TheMarquis - Spot on analysis, there!
I don’t think any fan of Watchmen will debate your point of view. The movie version will in no way be a substitute for what is arguably the single greatest achievement in graphic storytelling. If at the very least Snyder is able to present a solid representation, one would hope that will lead general audiences to seek out the source material. Perhaps they’ll look deeper into Moore’s other work, as well. And that’s not a bad thing!
(I always felt that the ultimate adaptation would have been a 12 part series, but that’s just me!)
July 20th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I agree with Moore. Direct “comic to big screen” design always equals fail. That’s the reason Bale isn’t running around in purple tights.
And this production of watchmen seems to be taking a visually literal approach to re-telling the book at the movies. Moore’s right, these things don’t really translate and work, at least not without major re-visualization, which he rightly points out as being wack and watering down the original source.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
jj gonzo,
To be fair to Moore, while I am tired of this stance of his. He has turned out all checks that he has garnered to his properties. He’s taken his stance and that’s the most he can do.
As far as any other material every made from a “book”. This applies to the Watchmen aswell. You’re not going to please everyone. It’s as simle as that. For me? It looks awesome so far. And we still have till next year to see this bloom into its full R-rated self.
I wonder if there will be a redband trailer of some kind?
July 20th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Alan Moore is a caker.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Brian Rodden,
I knew it.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:47 am
Calling Alan Moore “bitter” is a lazy, indefensible charge that neatly sidesteps having to address his actual assertions. I’ll wager that he wouldn’t be bitter or elitist if he liked the same films as everyone parroting the “bitter” line.
Drewbdoo, you’re right about the relative qualities of disparate media; I think comics are marginally better for some storytelling techniques than others {and the same could be said for any other medium}, but bad adaptations are a matter of execution, not form. A bad adaptation and a bad film are different things, even if the former is often a subset of the latter. Based on the trailer I saw, this will be both.
As for this,
“Oh, one more thing that occured to me. I really like how Moore says that films can’t do what comics do, and then goes on to say that the the reasons he didn’t see 300 were because they amplified the things he didn’t like about the comic. Uh, hypocrite maybe?”
There’s no contradiction there.
July 26th, 2008 at 1:35 am
When I was 12 in the mid 80’s and collected each of the 12 issues of Watchmen I learned all I could about the then and still elusive Alan Moore. It is nice to know some people in this world remain constant in their convictions.
I often wondered what I would do if given the opportunity to create musical score and sounds for a movie release of Watchmen. After watching the trailer and hearing Billy Corgan’s voice I became extremely let down. The Watchmen is it’s own world and I truly hope that any iconic washed alternative singers are stricken from the actual movie, including the credits, (please no sell outs). The director has enough stigma to deal with as there is a big difference between “300″ and Alan Moore’s imagination.
I have a good feeling that visually this film will stay true to the Dave Gibbons images. PLEASE DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN IN POST PRODUCTION TO ELIMINATE ANYTHING IN THE SOUNDTRACK THAT IS NOT UNIQUE TO THE WORLD OF THE NOVEL… otherwise you will kill the experience. Thank you for using fairly non famous actors and I pray that Zack’s adaptation is word for word as far as the original dialogue is concerned. Please do not pull a Peter Jackson and need an extended directors cut later for DVD… at least he has a valid excuse as those novels are much longer than the Watchmen.
Sure you can read this and say you can’t please everyone. Some things are meant to be pure. In the final analysis… God will sort it all out.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:55 am
@TheMarquis
I understand completely. I’ve read Watchmen perhaps over a year ago, but whenever Moore says that he did things that can only be done in comic form, those articles/excerpts/comics/reports/stories are EXACTLY what come to mind.
HOWEVER I still disagree with the sentiment that something like that couldn’t be translated. This is a close-minded way of thinking; no medium is inherently better than another, and adaptation from one to the next doesn’t mean that much has to be lost, nor does it mean that more can’t be gained.
Ever see Memento? That movie, aside from the main plot-thread, had a seemingly separate anecdotal story being told in small excerpts between major scenes. If a director wanted to do so, he could incorporate such those excerpts into moving pictures. Not as articles/excerpts/comics/reports/stories, but instead as snippets of documentaries/exposes/cartoons/news-reports/interviews. And the video excerpts could be just as informative and immersive as the written/illustrated excerpts.
Adapt the old medium to the new medium and all the bonuses the new medium allows.
I very much doubt that Watchmen the movie will include excerpts like that (though I’d think it would be cool, geek that I am), but I’m quite tired of people (Moore included) saying that his work can only work in its present medium.
Regarding Moore, I understand how bad he feels with his works in the past being bastardized by Hollywood. But everything I’ve seen about Watchmen is different. It’s been made by people that know and care, and don’t want to change things just for the sake of meeting demographics. IF Moore wanted to have input in this, he wouldn’t be (or have been, I guess) ignored; he’d actually have some say so this time around.
My thoughts/concerns is that, even if Moore realized that he could more-or-less direct Snyder to make whatever movie Moore deemed fit, he still wouldn’t. I think he would have that closed-minded view of “comic book only,” and he wouldn’t explore the possibilities of what moving pictures would allow him, opting to keep his mindset of old.
I won’t say that if Watchmen sucks, it’ll be because of Moore. But I will say that there’s a great chance that he could have kept it from sucking had he got involved.
August 12th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
For what it’s worth, I had never read a comic book before seeing the Sin City movie. And now, finding out that Watchmen is being made into a movie, and that it had been so successful as a comic, I decided to check it out, and thought it was great, now I can’t wait to see how the movie goes. My point is that I don’t think movies take away from comics necessarily, it just transforms it to a different medium, and can extend the fanbase further. Similar to me with Sin City, if loads of Watchmen movie fans get turned onto buying the book, will Moore not accept the royalties from selling more copies of the book?
August 12th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Alan Moore = Stubborn, bitter ass with an ego as big as his beard
Alan Moore’s work = Genius on every level
Watchmen = The first graphic novel I ever read and by far my favorite
300 movie = Visually stunning, but “sublimely stupid”
Watchmen movie = Cannot be judged until viewed in its completed entirety
Just my opinions
August 16th, 2008 at 5:53 am
The movie might be awesome (I liked the trailer), but I think Moore is right to some extent. Some comics just can’t be faitfhully adapted into movies. V for Vendetta (film) was great, yet lacked the book’s atmosphere. I suspect that will be the case with Watchmen as well.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:25 am
@790:
Amen, Brother! For the dave chapelle reference. Laughing my fucking ass off.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Lol ,,, Keynan ,,,,, //// !!
August 20th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I dont think that Alan Moore has a right to complain about his comics being turned into films because of Lost Girls. I hardly think JM Barrie or Lewis Carrol would want Wendy or Alice re-imagined into some pornographic sexual awakening story. Those stories were meant to entertain children. Ill agree that Alan Moore has written some good stuff, but he should think before speaks. And as far as V for Vendetta goes, i thought it was better than the comic, and for 300, the gay comment doesnt make it homophobic. Homophobic means that you are AFRAID of gay people, that scene may have been inaccurate, but thats what gay men like, men!
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:51 pm
300 is indeed imbecilic. Snyder is as worthless as any Paul W. S. Anderson. Gods bless Alan Moore.