Ledger succeeded at being a thug. In "warpaint". With all the subtleties of a sledgehammer to the head. That is all his character was. It completely missed the point of the Joker, and instead appealed to the lowest common denominator to try to put more butts in the seats at the theaters.

Please explain to me what was funny about his actions. Any of them. The pencil "trick"? WTF??? Aside from not even acting like he wanted to do it in the first place, if that's your biggest claim to Joker like behavior, then this rendition is in serious trouble. And the cutting??? How is that NOT common street thug or pimp behavior?

Is this what Batman's greatest foe (and possibly greatest villain of all) really is? A street thug in warpaint? Alpha thug he may be, but a mere thug nonetheless. A two-bit terrorist.

I daresay the only reason this depiction is making such an impression on people is because of society's heightened paranoia over terrorism. If that was the writer/director's intention, they should have come up with an entirely NEW character to fit the part. In that case, I would have loved this performance. As it stands, I can only see it as taking a character with the intellect, charm, and psychosis that perhaps surpasses that of even Hannibal Lecter and dumbing him down to Unabomber status.

I like one of Joker's own comic book quotes, which, although it might have been from a silly Batman/Spiderman crossover, still rings true when he compares himself to Carnage: "I've always considered myself to be the Orson Welles of crime. You, on the other hand, aspire to be nothing more than... David Hasselhoff!"

What we have in Ledger's Joker is comparable to Carnage: a one trick pony that merely looks scary to some people, but is about as deep as a puddle without any of the personality or creativity required to make a lasting impression.

Is that worthy of the Joker character? Look at his very first appearance in this film, his body language, in the first few shots. He's frigging SULKING!!! And it simply never lets up. A little variation might have been nice. I might have liked it more had I believed his laughter was genuine (not to mention more plentiful).

NOT THE CHARACTER!!!

Heath Ledger succeeded in all the ways that Jack Nicholson failed. Don't get me wrong, Jack Nicholson is a cool actor, but when it comes to The Joker, Ledger stole the spotlight. Nicholson's Joker wasn't nearly as sadistic, psychotic, disturbing, unpredictable or violent. He was just a nut crime boss that wanted a girl, and to kill people. He could also be humiliated, pushed around, scared, and he clearly had at least some fear of death. Ledger's Joker on the other hand was a pure psychopath, who wasn't interested in money or power, had no regard for any life, even his own, couldn't be interrogated, had no fear of death, in fact he was so sadistic that he enjoyed his own pain, and like Alfred said, he just wanted to watch the world burn.

jack nicholson is a better joker than heath for 3 reasons one is the fact that jack knows how to play a maniac instead of a steriotypical one like ledger. jack also just might be crazy in real life and that also adds to the performance and the third reason is the hype the movie got after ledgers death he was a terrific actoe but in my opinion ther is only one joker and he is jack nicholson

okay everyone time to get to the bottom of this, the first the adam west batman was complete shtick. The second tim burtons joker was at the time very dark, but goofy as well. This joker that we see once again had to be amped up to a new level, but why. Because each following decade people become more and more desensitized by what we see on tV. It takes more and more to break through and effect us through film on the topic of insanity. The is why each new joker is darker than the last. I won't say which one is the best because you have to look not at the individual performances but the time when it was released and the effect it had on that time.

Jack stole the show. Ledger put in an average performance but also died giving him a boost in his perceived performance. Jack simply outclasses Ledger as an actor, to think otherwise is simply foolish.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and compare not only the Joker's but the Batman films as well. I'll start off by saying you can't compare Jack's with Heath's performance. It is a matter of preference. Tim Burton's Batman films are based on the original comic books, which I grew up with, which is more gothic, dark and fictional - i.e. felt like a comic book like it should be, whereas Chris Nolan's are based on Frank Miller's Dark Knight comics which are brighter, more modern and more conventional to cater to a wider audience (which I do not like). Two totally different comic book series anyway, so two totally different Batman's and thus two totally different Jokers. It depended primarily on the style of the comic. For me Tim Burton is a better director, Michael Keaton is a better Batman and Jack Nicholson a better Joker, his Joker is how the Joker should be, more comical, more of a prankster, more like the TV series and the old comic which is how it should be. Heath's joker was very impressive, but his Joker was way too dark, too evil, not funny enough, not enough of a prankster, just more ruthless and more of a psychopath. For me Heath's Joker just did not work, but then Bale as Batman didn't work either - he is a good actor but is terrible at Batman - he is not as believable as Bruce Wayne let alone Batman - that voice - oh my god it is so annoying. Batman and Batman Returns anyday over Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Okay they might not be as commercial or cater for a wider audience but they were much better.

JACK NICHOLSON is the "BEST" person for the role of joker ... I really luv him because of his sadistic acts ...

I'm looking at everyone's opinions and i can truly see where you guys are coming from. But all of you people have to remember that one! they are two different time periods. And the scripts where written completely different from one another. You can't compare them because they are not acting the same script. Jack was amazing at his joker role for his time period and i give him props. And to heath ledger he was amazing in the joker role that we received in our time period. The scripts where written differently again so the actor acted upon the script and how the theme and idea was given to them. Obviously they act different because thats what the script was asking for. in jacks it was to always smile be funny and have perfect make up all the time. while in heath ledger it was realistic make up gets messed up, he was very crazy, loved to cause chaos, trying to have humor threw his actions. it was more of a harder role to pull out sarcasm threw a serious character with make up on . So yeah Jack Nicholson was bomb and hey i give him my hat for that but Heath ledger's role was more realistic, and by far more challenging the jack Nicholson. tell me how can someone be so funny while being serious and having make up on. Do you honestly believe that jack could have pulled that role off like heath. I believe not i believe heath could have been funny but his script, his role, his character, his director wanted that to be different. He wanted this joker to be remembered and not be said by the viewers oh it was a good joker, he wanted to leave a mark to remember like "wow that was intense but funny i will never forget that movie" that was what he wanted. And as you can tell that is what heath ledger put on the table. Heath left the name of the joker back in peoples heads and he most definitely left his name beside that role and beside of people minds as he was and till this day is going to be the best actor ever. To have gotten so deep into this role, putting his heart on the table, and in the character is why i believe that Heath is a better joker. people remember jack as joker, but people will always remember Heath as the best joker and actor now and foreva.
and lastly TDK isn't overrated because Heath died it was known because the actors and the way they acted there scripts in this movie is phenomenal. And the movie was locked as all time best but heath made that movie happen heath put the chain around that lock 10,000 more times then jack. Heath made it offical. heath made that movie happen

Nicholson is what the joker is suppose to be. Ledger did good but Nicholson is way better

Heaths joker was the best and always will be Heath made an awesome joker and its sad that he died

R.I.P. Heath Ledger

you have got to be joking

jack was good in the 1989 batman movie but i would have to say that Heath Ledger was a far better joker than jack ever was.

I dont see how you can compare them, they are in 2 different types batman movies, Burton's batmans where more cartoony like the original batman comic books, Nolan's batmans are like the "Dark Knight" adult graphic series which are serious and not cartoony at all.

Cait, isn't Heath's famous line "Why so serious?" I find that hilarious because he spent most of the film looking serious and his make up looked like crap.

floyd0, Heath deserved it.

it doesn't have anything to do with him being dead, most of people are saying heath cause he was indeed better he blew jack away.

Actually, Green, you're "off"

Did you ever think MAYBE his name is the Joker because the creator was trying to be ironic?

Hmmmm...

You're off Fenix. The character's name is the JOKER, he's supposed to be goofy. And both of them find murder hilarious.

Look at this in actuality folks. Jack's Joker is goofy and Heath's is an agent of chaos. Jack's tries to be funny and Heath's makes you laugh even though he does horrific things. Jack's Joker was a mobster in a suit and Heath's was a complete psychopath who found violence and murder hillarious. These are from different time periods but I think everyone knows that Joker is Batman's anti-thesis or polar opposite, in the Nolan series Joker is the chaos to Batman's order. Heath was perfect and I only hope that they find someone who can pretend to be half as skilled at the role as Heath to carry on the role in the sequels.

Heath Ledger once said he was doing the role as a means of redeeming himself after brokeback mountain to his fans.

Heath wherever you are now, you are not only redeemed, you are an idea and you'll live for ever. R. I. P.

Heath Ledger's Joker had NOTHING in common with the comics Joker.

But because of his death, The Dark Knight became the most overrated movie of the year.

If ledger was still alive not many people will care, but since he is dead he is getting all these sympothy votes for being better. Yes, sympothy votes are real and still being used today. This is evidence.

HEATH LEDGER was 100% better than jack nicholson...hes so much cooler..he got really into character..jacknicholson was not good..heath ledger really made the movie good..i dont think anyone else couldve made a better joekr than him..hes DEFINITELY the best.!!!..
R.I.P HEATH LEDGER
we will never forget you

They are very different viewings of the same character, buy i have to honestly bow before ledger, he really make a super-villian of the joker, twisted, crazed, absolutely unbound... :) yep, hurray for ledger and incredibly sorry, DEP :(

heath was awsome... indeed he did play a new favorite character in my view, and that character was definately pretending to be but wasn't, the joker. was it better than jacks joker ... yes... but was it the joker... no

Ceaser Romero: classical skeemer / prankster
C.R= Bozo the clown combined with scooby doo style villan
(Funniest)

Jack Nicholson: Fun loving Killer / Cold hearted mobster
J.N.= Ronald McDonald combined with ScarFace
(Classiest)

Heath Ledger : Psychotically obsessed Cynical wild-dog
H.L.= Feels a lot like brandon lee playing the crow ( the crow looks like a mime from hell... and a mime is a theatrical clown ).
(Scariest)

though i loved the performances of all three it almost seems like they were playing three different parts

though the actor means a lot in the translation of the character one must realize the director is the deciding factor. heath and jack could've played each others roles quite well in this saga, but i could't possibly see either play cesar's version. i also could't see cesar playing either of the two newer darker versions. cesar was not bad but he was not my favorite. and i can't possibly deside between jack and heath. so i think i simply have to go with jacks version... since it seems to best match with the comic book series which i was once a huge fan of.

i loved all three.

heaths role will go down in history but lets not forget who first carved the path in such a dark direction, jack

Most Kid friendly version for parents to show youngsters: Ceasar
favorite joker: jack
More Talent in general: heath

Miguelangelo, the thing is, the joker isn't a funny comedian.

They (Jack & Heath), have performed 2 different Joker's.

Jack play the funny/comic Joker and Heath play the bad/horror Joker.
Two different Joker's to me.. Two different things..

Nicholson's joker didn't have extended dialog. His joker scenes were often very short, and he'd quip a line, then walk off camera. A few scenes just had him dancing to bad music. So what?

Heath's had extended dialog, like the hospital scene, and the holding cell. These scenes must have taken enormous amounts of emotional energy to sustain the character.

Having said that, I think that Jack Nicholson should have had a chance to compete for the role. Even if they picked Heath, there would still be elements to the Joker that Jack could refresh during the auditions, and at least give deeper complexity to Heath's winning character.

Actually I do believe that without Jack Heath would have played it the same way- because I don't believe he ever saw Jack's Joker and was never into Batman at all before he started making the Dark Knight

In an interview he stated that he just read the script and knew where he wanted to go with the character- and when he took his ideas to Nolan they just had the exact same vision of the Joker.

So I repeat: He wasn't expounding on Jack's version of the Joker, this was all his.

How easily they forget. At the time Jack's Joker was groundbreaking. He DID portray madness, and at times it really was subtle and creepy. It's just that now it's old hat. Back then when people outside of comic book fandom thought of the Joker they thought of Romero's 60's TV Batman. Jack brought a darkness "Wait'll they get a load of me..." and evil to the Joker that wasn't seen in live action prior to the 89 movie.
As time marches on, different becomes cliche, but put yourself back in that time period when Burton's Batman was considered dark and more adult. And don't try to tell me that without Jack Heath would've played it the way he did. Heath was awesome, but he was naturally extending Jack's character.

I'm not gonna start the Jack vs. ledger Crap ... any reader of the comics could easily pick the better one...

now on to the actual subject

This video, wasn't too bad. I've seen worse.

Nicholson simply improved the Joker of TV fame. Ledger Played it as it was Meant to be. Ledger had it harder, because where do you go with the Joker, after Jack has done it?? Well....Ledger took it to a new level. Nicholson was actually outraged that he was not offered the role in DK. Is he crazy? Jack is 70 years old! That, and the fact that he never was right for it. Historically, The Joker was Thin, young, and had a full head of hair....just the opposite of nicholson! Ledger WAS the Joker!

I like them both equally. Heath's is more realistic, Nicholson's is more eccentric and colorful. That being said, I wasn't in the least creeped out by Ledger's performance. I found myself, and the audience laughing at him a lot. I know some parts were meant to be funny, but all in all, you aren't supposed to be feeling that light hearted while watching him say those lines. NIcholson really scared me more when I was younger, the way he took that buzzer and fried the guy while laughing wildly and danced around while people were dying. I liked how he had the added plot of being the one who killed Batman's dad. Anyway, major props to Heath, RIP

WHOEVER wrote the comment that Heath had an easier job because Bale was a more serious Batman and therefore easier to work with/bounce the mood for his character off of is an IDIOT...

I'm sorry but it's true.

Heath's Joker ABSOLUTLEY blew me away when I saw it; it was beyond belief how amazing he was. His mannerisms (sucking on his scar tissue, licking his lips, the twitching and twisting in all the right places), the versatility of his voice, his laugh, even how he walked and fought was fabulous (especially when he was physically fighting Batman- all the jumping in psychotic excitment and shouting in morbid joy and uncontrolled shaking of his face).

I could go on and on and on and on...

Jack's Joker was good for what it was, but you always recognized the character as being, underneath it all, Jack, whereas with Heath's Joker you had to CONSTANTLY remind yourself that yes, there was in fact an actor beneath all the makeup and mannerisms.

I was never really a Ledger fan before I saw this movie, but now I can't get enough (and contrary to popular belief it has nothing to do with his death, I would be just as blown away if he was alive today and just as eager to see more of his films). Now I just look back and am always amazed by the fact that the man who played in 10 Things I Hate About You is the same man who played the JOKER and was able to pull it off brilliantly. Haha, it's just inconcievable to me that someone could have such skill...

Alright- enough of that! I don't care if you agree or disagree, but IMO Heath's Joker was BY FAR the best to date and probably one of the best performances an actor has ever given.

Give this man an Oscar!!!

Heath Ledger played the best joker Ever!! Anyone who says that Ledger did a bad job..doesn't know movies! Jack nicholson was too fat to play joker...he wasn't funny he didn't portray joker everyone could tell it was him...it was boring...now Ledger, played the joker! The original joker...I didn't see him as Heath Ledger I saw him as joker!! He is insane but it was awesome!! And he was funny!! What a great job he did! He should most definatly recive an oscar!!!

We all know that the best Joker was Ceasar Romero.

IMO, the "remake" movie should show it after 2020 so that no one could argue in between Jack and Heath while these actors are still alive, except Heath.

In 1989, Batman is good for children to view. It's clean and less bloody violence. I like Jack as a Joker cuz his smile does suit the Joker's smile. He has evil looking with his grins. His job intends to be a bad character as evil/crazy/villian.

In 2008, Batman looks more bloody criminal and it scares children.
It is good for mid-teenagers and above to view it.

Heath? I never knew that Joker was Heath. I checked the IMDB.com and "Omg, that's Heath?" He's too handsome to be a Joker. So, it's thumb down. I meant Heath has a very nice looking, he's hot. His job could be stripper, beachboy, romantic, and hero in the ancient periods.

Why not the other actor who is suitable to be crazy villian/evil character? That would beat everything.

See, the problem that i've always had with Jack nicholson's joker is that when he played the joker, he didn't play the joker; he played almost every other role he's ever played again.

Now when Heath played the joker, he actually played as the joker. And a disturbingly creepy joker, too.

an also he actually got you to get into character and think bout how the Joker was and damn that was freaky... that gave me goosebumps just watching it and thinking bout it

naw i disagree with GI Joe...

Heath Legder did an amazing job as Joker!!
you gotta understand that the Joker's character is bout playing games but at the same time he's somebody you shouldn't messed with, insane and etc...

Jack did an alright part as joker.... he did have that scary look but i loved the Heath Ledger's part as Joker because he really got into character on how the Joker became the Joker...
seriously think bout on how they did the makeup on Heath... the way he had those scars really told you bout the character.. he gave it away when he said why he hated his father and how he got those scars... he gave you an insight on how smart the Joker was... there were parts that were funny and i liked that because the Joker is supposed to be funny on sum parts... but has to have an edge... and Heath Ledger gave you that...

he picked the best role!

R.I.P

Sorry...pasted by mistake now I'm lazy


Heath.

[quote name='MrDean' date='Aug 2 2008, 04:52 AM' post='2081385']
It is because they buy into that good black men shortage myth and try to take advantage of it. We discussed this earlier in the thread somewhat.

Educated and professional is something to be proud of, but some do translate it to I'm better than you, treat me like it.
[/quote]


I'll ditto that. I try to encourage sisters not to persist with the Black men shortage because first of all it's a myth. Secondly...when you zero on in job, education and salary it let's brothers off the hook in regards to personality and character. When I see a list of qualities someone wants in a man and they involve job, home, car, level of education - listed first, I think you'll end up with an educated, gainfully employed jerk.

re: Manny...I actually hate baseball. But I wouldn't cut my locs for any job. I wouldn't do it now and if I was in his position I would only have more leeway to keep them. There is nothing on my resume in regards to my hair.

[b]***Disclaimer - [i]The views of Amadeo are his own and are not endorsed by every man on earth. These responses were not formed by committee and no other men were consulted in formulating them.[/i] [/b]

Jack was awesome as the joker, burton's batman is 20 years old but would still be awesome if it came out now. I don't get why people are bashing him, he played a brilliant role. Heath's joker, well, he's awesome, but how much does his death influence people's opinions, I ask? If you're going to compare them, jack had to have played in the new dark night and he had to have died at the same age he was 20 years ago. So who knows, I don't, you don't, too much style and time difference and biased opinions.

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.
BEST
JOKER
EVER !!!!!!!

rip heath
legend!

wag1 folks.
yo HEATH is a legend boii ! what a rle da guy tuk on blad !

Heath Ledger is the better joker HANDS DOWN! Jack was a JOKE whereas Heath played this memorable role as being frightening and incorporating humour within the role, and that is exactly how i see the joker as being. Heath Ledger definetly has to win an oscar for his performance. R.I.P Heath (F)

Between the two of them, they make one whole joker.... They are both incomplete characters. Ledger clearly had a better script, but his acting was hardly a difficult thing to pull off... If he wasn't dead, this movie wouldn't have broken any records.

Jack did a better job, his joker was more with the comics i feel. Ledger just blew people up and made it more of a game, kind of like how the riddler does, but Jack's joker did kill everyone in the museum, did try to poison every one in the city buy giving them money, then try to kill them all. Jack did have a better laff, and his character did give others that creepy grin like his when they died of the poison. Ledger did do a good creepy job as a bad guy and as a villain but his joker was a different type. More mental, maybe, smarter, yes.. With all his well detailed plans in the dark knight, and not wanted to kill batman, but just mess with him. Ten years from now we will be better able to decide what joker was better. You got to admit though, Jack had to work with Keaton as a batman, and he wasn't that great as a batman, and Ledger had bale who in my mind was a great batman, so ledger had an easier one to work with, where as Jack was the only thing worth watching in burtons batman.

I prefer Ledger's Joker, but don't neglect Nolan's contributions to the role. His vision is far darker and grittier than any of the previous Batman films. Ledger was fantastic because he looked almost clinically insane as the Joker - it's what made his portrayal stand out so much in my mind - but it was made possible because it fit in perfectly with Nolan's vision.