Yesterday, I posted on Christian Bale’s reported dismissal of Robin—both the character and his place in Christopher Nolan’s Batman franchise—and the comments continue to unfold with incredibly lengthy diatribes widely in favor of Bale’s sentiments. Twenty-three words can unleash hundreds of thousands, and now highly respected comic writer Jeph Loeb, whose credits include both The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, has come out in defense of Robin/Dick Grayson’s place in a Batman 3. What’s worth noting is that both of the connected books mentioned above have long been considered by geeks to be fair game for a sequel(s) to The Dark Knight…if we’re so lucky. Here’s what Loeb told MTV regarding his vision for “the next step” in these high water mark superhero films..
“Take the time to tell the story properly,” Loeb said. “There is a story of Dick Grayson and how he becomes Robin that is extremely moving and very helpful. …[Grayson/Robin] doesn’t understand why it is that he needs to do this and Bruce doesn’t understand why he’s doing it either because he’s not a parent. He doesn’t know how to be a parent,” Loeb said. “And together, they make each other better people. So that for me would be the next step.”
Right now, Robin is considered to be a hex for the series due to Joel Schumacher’s legendary wack-job with the character/costumes. Combined with Robin’s oft-pubescent, effete depiction, he automatically seems like a flamboyant anomaly to Nolan’s world of hardboiled crime staked in realistic technology and sophistication. Of course, Nolan’s take on Robin would certainly not resemble anything like the admittedly biased image above, but Robin would still prove a creative challenge to adapt unlike any other character in his mythology. Oddly enough, Bale stated back in 2005 that one of his favorite Batman comics was Dark Victory, in which Robin plays a considerable role…
“But the two [Batman stories] that I liked particularly were Dark Victory and The Long Halloween. They just had some really fantastic imagery in there of the severity of Batman and everything and I would kind of imitate those positions.”
There’s speculation that The Daily Mail falsely attributed the Robin diss to Bale; however, it’s equally as likely that Bale simply browsed through various graphic novels sent to him by DC (as he informed fans in the link above) with casual interest. As it stands, Bale hates Robin. Haha. If the third film is indeed the last, might it seem strange to have entirely overlooked such a well recognized part of canon? While /Film doesn’t wish to see Robin appear in any form, Loeb does make a nice and knowing effort to illustrate how it could be done tastefully…
“I wouldn’t let him become Robin until the third act, if that. I think that’s the other problem when you tell that story is that there’s this rush to put him in a costume by the end of the first 20 minutes and in that case I think it’s a disaster…”
Discuss: Do Loeb’s comments change your stance on the appropriateness/inclusion of Robin in a sequel to The Dark Knight? Is it worth the risk and if so, how old would Robin need to be for it to work? What do you make of Bale’s compliments to Dark Victory but dislike for Robin?
Bonus Disuss: Is Chris O’Donnell’s Robin the lamest, worst outfitted superhero ever put to film? Has anyone offered a picture of Robin to O’Donnell for an autograph circa 2008? Do tell.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:12 pm
This reminds me of an old History Channel special on comics. There talking about the decision to kill Jason Todd and one day one of the writers goes into a deli and the owner knows what he does for a living and he goes off on how dare he kill Robin. No one really cares/likes Robin until you try and put him in a corner. Then Patrick Swayze shows up and alerts you to the problem of putting Robin in the corner.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Leave Robin out. Batman is a great on his own. I don’t want some obnoxious kid or tween in this. And Bale is right if they tried to squeeze him into a third film like this. I don’t want this to stray from Batman as it is. Jumping into the “too comic book-y” realm side of things.
The last thing I want is them giving screen time to some NAMBLA members wet dream.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:16 pm
If Robin fits with the story that Nolan wants to tell, then fine. Don’t shoehorn him into this series of films out of some bizarre sense of obligation to include every character from the Batman comics mythos. Nolan’s is a film world not a comics world. Not everything is gonna work.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:18 pm
@ CA
Two comments in, and NAMBLA is already dragged into it?
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:27 pm
What can I say? I’m a simple man with child molestation on the mind.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Jeph Loeb can suck monkey balls. That motherfucker ruined the Ultimates in about every way.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
YoungZe,
I never read TU when he took it over. That bad huh?
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Well, I didn’t read his take on The Ultimates (which, from what of it I have read, is a pretty kick ass series) but Jeph Loeb is definitely my favorite Batman writer and he did a damn good job incorporating Robin into Dark Victory. That being said, if they were willing to pace Robin’s intro (as Loeb suggested), I think he’d be a good addition. But you’d need a punk-ass kid who could stand his own opposite Bale, which may be tough to find.
On the Chris O’Donnell note, he wasn’t absolutely terrible, but he was way too old for the part. The writer’s and casting should be blamed for Robin showing up in that form, not O’Donnell.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I think the proportions of Long Halloween/Dark Victory’s awesomeness to the quite smelly Ultimates 3 justifies his right to not be subjected to monkey balls sucking.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:49 pm
The guy makes an interesting point - but the fact is that the character just doesn’t fit within Nolan’s universe. There would need to be some spectacular writing and performance to make it work.
Also they might want to rethink the name too, unless he’s an ex-con and Batman saved him from a life of “robin” banks : D
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Stop IT.
Leave Robin if your going to keep trashing his name and loyelty. Robin is realer than Joker and Riddler. You need to do you write better about Robin. Riddler tells riddles and kills Batman Robin lived in a circus and learned how to fight and become strong. I am 1 4 and I can fight so keep talking bad about him. He is the best comicbook hero of all time and that is why he has more comics than even Batman or Catwoman. Have you read Robin? You should and then you write new talking about his powers and his new movie that is coming out.
Brian Taylor
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Oh dear.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:57 pm
haha
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Captain Awesome:
You wouldn’t believe it. He takes everything Millar and Hitch did and threw it into shit. Thor is talking like this 616 version now, because people think it’s cool. There is some weird Valkyrie babe at his side. Captain America hates when Bulls/Hawkeye swears, talking like some dude from the 50 (yeah i know, but Millars Cap wasn’t like that). Hawekeye hates his live and looks like some kind of Ultimate Bullseye. The Comic starts with a porn video featuring Tony Stark and Black Widow on a big screen and every single Ultimates Member is watching it, like it’s no big deal. Even Hawkeye (remember, Black Widow killed his family) and Tony who loved her. Venom has a cameo for like 3 panels. Pietro and his sis have no problem showing there “love” and again everyone is acting like it’s normal. Wanda gets shot, Pietro gets Emo, Magneto joins, the brotherhood joins, the x-men joins, spider-man joins. The dialogs are incredibly stupid. It’s like some 12 year old wrote that shit. At the end he throws more and more characters in and let them fight for no real reason. It’s unbelievable.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I actually thought Robin was one of the better things about “Batman & Robin.” While the other characters were hamming it up, he actually seemed to be taking things semi-seriously.
Anyway, I’m fine with Robin being introduced in the new Batman film franchise. However, I think his appearing in the third movie is a little too soon.
Plus, Robin’s costume would definitely need some work. After all, everything about it goes against Bruce Wayne’s reasoning for the Batman suit.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I think it could work and what Loeb talks about is part of what could work about it.
But if Nolan’s Batman vision is indeed only going to be a trilogy, then I think it’s too late to try and get Robin in there, at this point. Forcing a major character into the equation in the third act is not only unfair to a well-established character (see: Venom, Megatron, etc.) but also is pretty lame, story-wise. I think the Batman/Robin relationship (especially in a universe like the one Nolan has established) should have weight and the development of it shouldn’t be crammed into two hours.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
To be really quite honest, a Nolan Robin excites me. In the same way that Robin has been through so many different incarnations, there’s nothing keeping the Robin that people hate so much and turning him/her into something completely different and dark. There’s a lot of room here to work, and to shut the door completely is shortsighted - especially if biased from the SCHUMACHER films. He/She doesn’t have to be a nitwit in a little green suit. Canon defenders would complain, but then again I already see plenty of Canon-defenders complaining here about the simple idea of Robin even being included in a 3rd movie. And yet Robin is such a large part of Batman Canon to begin with.
I definitely see plenty of room to go with it, but yes… There is a high probability it could be a doomed decision if done poorly. But I’d trust Chris Nolan to do it more than anyone.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:06 pm
@ Brian Taylor
Please leave /Film and go to summer school/jail.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:13 pm
no robin sorry
no no no
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Actually, Hunter, the more I think about it, maybe that was him auditioning for the part? haha.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I think Robin would be too hard to pull off in Nolan’s Batmans. He’s a kid! And which one? Jason Todd sucked, and I’ve only liked the latest one during Identity Crisis. What I think would be really sweet is Nightwing. I just don’t know if the fans would allow Nolan to skip over Grayson’s Robin and go straight into Nightwing.
Nolan’s Nightwing would be freaking awesome.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:20 pm
hahahahaha nice hunter, nice…way to reel ‘em in with your story and then kick him off the site…but hey-you’ve got a point (jail sounds like the better alternative for him)
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Jeph Loeb can lick my balloon knot several times. He’s an idiot.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Loeb is a phenomenal writer, particularly of DC characters. it doesn’t take any intelligence to say that he can “lick” or “suck” something - at least take a potshot at his work, implying vaguely that you may have read something sometime. i’m glad that he responded to these alleged comments of Bale’s, because it means that hopefully, someone somewhere in WB and/or DC will be paying attention to how the next script is prepared.
“Nolan’s Batman Universe” does not exist on its own… it exists BECAUSE of DC’s Batman, and all of the canon therein. the producers have some say in “Nolan’s Batman” too, and i don’t think that any producer or “fan” is giving a director free license to completely re-create a character when that director works on a film… i’d like to see what NOLAN’s thoughts about Robin are… somebody work on that…
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:48 pm
I’m not a die hard Batman fan. I’ve never read any of the comics, but I have watched all of the animated series’s. I know that Robin probably won’t fit in the current trilogy, but maybe in the next? I actually like Robin as a charactor. He keeps Bruce Wayne from going over the edge, which I think is a very important element which is being overlooked. I dunno… without Robin I just feel like there’s a piece missing.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Good Lord, YoungZe. That sounds horrific.
haha, and who is this B. Taylor fellow?
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
wait, didn’t Bale try out for the role of Robin in Batman Forvever?
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
It’s funny that this post is after the Harry Potter one because I could totally picture someone like Radcliffe making the character of Robin work and his current comic costume would be great translated to screen.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
edit: Forever
my bad.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
back @ david
If you’ve checked out the latest of DC’s Batman, you’d kind of think they’ve lost their minds. This week, he’s hooked on “weapons grade heroin” and sewing a new batsuit from homeless men’s fabric…
Oh, and his mother was gangbanged, with Alfred involved. I kind of like the “Nolan’s Batman” a hell of a lot more than DC/Morrison’s.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Nolan/Bale’s batman/wayne needs to figure out ‘who he is’ before he can take on a sidekick. plus, we don’t know what ‘the next step’ should be, because we havn’t seen TDK yet. nuff said.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:09 pm
The only realistic way to put robin in Nolan’s world is as if he started as batmans extra eyes, staying off battle, or even maybe stay that way because of the danger and so people dont link Wayne/Grayson with Batman/Robin. until he decides to make it on her own living Gotham and then become NightWing.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Didn’t Bale also audition for Robin back in 1995?
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Dont make him Dick Grayson, make him Tim Drake
I thought the boy in the red shirt from Batman Begins was a reference to a potential Robin character.
Im sure this was said already
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Leave out Robin. Though Nightwing is more badass though. But still….
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Catwoman done right in batman3 please. Use her origin from Year One.
Robin would probably need an entirely new backstory for this series
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
i fully trust nolan for this. i’m sure that he won’t do what sam raimi does in spiderman 3.
realistic robin? why not. nolan could do it with the joker. but i’m hoping for catwoman’s appearance.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:28 pm
I think he should just start out as night wing by himself. And is taken to train with batman like league of shadows stuff. That batman should see him self the day he wanted to kill the guy who gunned down his parents in Grayson. Since both of their parents died by thugs.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:29 pm
People aren’t going to see a Batman movie to see the story of Robin told and have 1 or 2 villains thrown into the mix. I think we’ve seen that done to death. Batman Returns/Batman and Robin…SpiderMan 3…and I fear it will happen to the next Iron Man movie where presumably we will get War Machine…also with Robin you lose that sense of darkness that is so important to the Batman world. there are so many ways you can go with Batman there is no need to add Robin to the movie franchise…unless you want to kill it again…
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:31 pm
First of all, let me state that I am a HUGE fan of Dick Grayson/Robin, Dick Grayson/Nightwing, and even Tim Drake/Robin. Yes, I voted (several times) for Jason Todd/Robin to get axed. I got grounded for a month I racked up so many phone charges.
However, “Robin” the character has no place in Nolan’s Batman trilogy. Perhaps Long Halloween or Dark Victory would be great movies 4 and 5, but as The Dark Knight seems perched to set-up Two Face as the main villain, Robin would be out of place. I want to see Bats/Bruce Wayne struggle with helping his former friend and now future enemy.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Matt:
Don’t EVEN get me started on all that Infinite Crap I mean, Crisis bullshit!
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
ROBIN will ruin the bat franchise
think of this bat trilogy is year
one batman and please… NO ROBIN!!!
if ROBIN is in the next film.. WE RIOT!!!
see you all @ comic con 08!!!
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
IMO, the sentiment that Robin has no place in Nolan’s Batman stems from the lack of understanding of the character. As he says, when you think of Robin the first thing that you think of is that horrendous portrayal in the other movies. Just like when Nolan hears Penguin he says he has no place in his Batman because of what Burton had done with the character. The real Penguin would actually fit in perfectly with the Gotham that Nolan has created just like how I also believe Robin would also have a place.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Robin has been in the Bat books for decades for a reason, he’s important to the character. If you don’t understand how that works, then you’ve never read a batman comic. You don’t have a character remain in the foreground for this length of time without having it work.
I’d like to point out to people who think its fine to alter the source material to fit a directors vision of that character, its a movie called Superman Returns, and Bryan Singer thought it would be cool to make Clark a daddy, and to have Lex Luthor act like the villain in a Vaudeville play.
T
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Also to say anything negative about Jeph Leob in regards to his understanding of the Bat Family is ridiculous: The Long Halloween, Haunted Knight, and Dark Victory are perfect examples of just how ell he understands the character. The books are pitch perfect, and a far cry better than Frank Millers, “he’s pissed of and mean now” Batman.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:04 pm
And again krackajap demonstrates how reading a comic allows you to better understand what Robin does.
Nicely done.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Robin has ALREADY appeared in this new Batman franchise. You’ll see. He is in Batman Begins, I’m sure of it, there’s a kid who gets a glimpse of Batman at an early stage in the projects (or whatever they’re called) and he is given one of Batman’s tools as he disappears back into the night. This kid is also saved by him (and Katie) at the end when the poor part of the city is being affected by the toxin. Being from the poor part of the city, his parents could have been killed off by some crazy person during the Asylum breakout too, thus you could see why this character would pop up later after becoming obsessed and idolising Batman from this childhood encounter.. ultimately becoming Robin. Nolan does this kind of thing in his films too - they’re like giant puzzles - hints are given early on as to what will happen later. For instance, the ‘two’ birds being used in the magic trick at the start of THE PRESTIGE which is a massive clue what one of the twists of the movie was. That is why I’m sure Nolan included this little boy (who also has a dirty red t-shirt on, I might add). Nolan may not intend to include Robin in his films yet, but for anyone that takes over the franchise… there’s bits like this that keep the continuity and link everything up. I suspect the kid might not be old enough to become Robin yet, given the timeline of when part II and III will take place. But the option is there now, to be exploited later.
The character of Robin could be like Harvey Dent in a sense too, which ties in with Nolan’s vision. In that, given what happens to Harvey in part II, Batman is determined that no one go through the same thing and fall to the ‘dark side’ when originally starting off as a crimefighter. He is insistent that no one else become involved in what he does, and he hates that he has inspired other ’superheroes’. All you need is a talented actor to play Robin who doesn’t come off as whiney annoying sidekick. He has to be a seperate entity that actually can hold his own.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:12 pm
I can see it now, Robin introduced in the 3rd film as played by Shia LeBeouf.
All across the country comic book fans and film buffs commit mass suicide.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:13 pm
i think i’ll cry if they put robin in.
NO ROBIN!
GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY!
(but if they DO put him in (please, god, don’t let it happen) don’t name him dick, that just adds to the faggotness.)
i agree w/ christian bale;
he’s hot and smart :)
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:16 pm
If he were actually doing that, that sucks because its ignoring the origins, and its changing the concept of the character too much.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
fine, i guess thats true.
they should at least call him richard.
that’s a good compromise.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Just to be honest. I thought the kid in the Narrow’s that Batman saved was going to be shape into Robin. If he was, Robin would probably have a better story than Batman himself. If Nolan can re-invent Joker and Two-face he can for Robin.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
So Nolan changed Ras Al Ghul storyline pretty drastically. The Joker has a scar mouth instead of a smile (and it looks like maybe makeup instead of a white face).
What’s wrong with letting him make Robin cool.
As long as Jeph Loeb isn’t allowed to touch it. That sonofabitch has a superpower that lets him take anything rad that’s not Batman with Tim Sale, and turn it to toilet paper. Superman with Tim Sale: meh. Superman/Batman: craaaaaappp.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Ultimates? Urghhhhhhh!
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
This is how a good Robin would go down:
You do your Batman story as planned; Gordon, Rachel, Alfred, Lucius, villains… whatever.
But then you have a subplot where it starts off with Batman feeling like he’s being watched or followed… not in a threatening way but just a presence hiding in the shadows, whenever Batman is out on the town.
Then later on in the film you have a sequence with Batman trying to test whoever is following him by jumping, swinging, flying through the city; and to much of his surprise, whoever it is, they can keep up with Batman.
Then, as all of this is going on, Batman and Gordon receive little tips left behind at the Bat signal by someone who knows the city’s crime dealings at the street level, and signs the tips as “Robin”.
Then, you have the story wrap up and the movie ready to end but Batman decides to catch his mysterious stalker now that the big story is over… He catches his follower and realizes he’s just a kid; and not only just a kid, but “Robin”… Then you leave it at that and whoever takes over after Nolan can ruin it.
I’m telling you, that’s the best way it’ll work!
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Fuck Robin.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
All I have to say is that if Nolan could find a way to work in Robin without taking away from the serious tone of the films then fine. Robin can be extremely dark and extremely somber, pick up All Star Batman and Robin if you don’t believe me.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Changing the Ra’s storyline drastically is kind of a big deal. The Scarecrow was basically a rented thug with fear gas. The Joker not getting dropped in acid, kind of a big deal. Inventing Rachel Dawes, also a big deal. This idea that Nolan respects the source material and is delivering a true Batman is pretty far off. I honestly think the praise is because Nolan is a “hip” quasi-indie critical darling, I didn’t think Begins was revolutionary, and I actually thought it was fairly dull and a bit lame. I’m excited to see The Dark Knight, but I think that there is a ridiculous amount of hype for this film, and the tragedy with Ledger is getting a lot attention from people who normally wouldn’t care about Batman, and thats why you have people posting that “robin is gay” its because they’ve never read a comic, and they think that Chris ODonnell is Robin.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 pm
I, for one, don’t hate Robin…I just don’t think it’s a good idea to muddle a superhero movie with too many characters and that has been proven time and again. I think Batman and a strong villain can carry enough movies to sustain the franchise. Hell, you could give Robin/Nightwing their own movies down the road…
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I am shocked Bale would not want to see a Robin alongside him in a Film Just like in the Comics if done right done with help of a writer like Jeph Loeb i am sure you can have a kick ass Robin…
Think about it adapt his new Costume for the Film from the current comics books not underwear black and red. he would have to be a young Actor about fifteen who can play a serious roles like Cameron Bright who played a really messed up kid in the butterfly effect. I can see him challenge Bales Character.
They could build it up to the point where its hinted that robin agrees to become robin in the end…
then you make the Broken Bat Trilogy in two films and then end batman and move on to the Justice league which should be hinted to already in the third movie exactly the way Marvel is doing it.
I respect Bale as one of the greater actors of our time but seriously i hope he understands batman belongs to the DC universe not our which therefor makes unrealistic… and yet lovable
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
No way do we want the BRUCE and DICK
show!!!! But ,I agree with DOOGLEBERRY
i’m sure that kid in Batman Begins is
the set up for ROBIN… I would rather
see BATGIRL (not the alicia silverstone
bullshit) in the third movie!!! come DC
you have to give us the movie we are
all waiting for… GREEN LANTERN!!!!!!!!:)
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Doogleberry:
That kid was way too young to be a Robin. Age is a major factor for this primarily because TDK takes place almost instantly after BB. If they were to show the kid again, he would have magically aged 3 years overnight in the movie’s continuity. Assuming it takes another three years to produce the third Batman film (which we all know will happen) the kid, who looked about ten, would be 16 by then. While 16 is certainly an appropriate age for Robin, it simply would work continuity wise because I highly doubt that the third movie takes place six years after the events of TDK. It just wouldn’t make sense.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:00 am
i have just one thing to add to what i said before:
i’ve seen batman forever and if i hear the words
“master dick” come out of micheal caine’s mouth,
i think i just might shoot myself.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:04 am
I say just make another trilogy about Robin. It makes perfect sense. Batman goes too dark in this first trilogy and Robin balances him in the second trilogy of movies.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Joseph Gordon-Levitt would be a good Robin, I think he would give an edge to the role, but they should wait to introduce hin until the end of Batman 3.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:42 am
I think the best way to incorporate Dick Grayson into the third film is as a tertiary character. That sounds ridiculous but if you leave him sort of in the background, with his “Robin” status not fully realized for the entire film, I think it could work.
I would rather Robin remain out of Nolan’s series of films, but Dick Grayson could add something.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:48 am
i will never understand the bandwagon aspect of our society.
people can say (in one comment mind you) that they need to keep with the canon, but shouldnt put robin in because he “doesnt fit” how can he not fit? he is part of the canon. honestly, i loved begins, and i read the comics when i was growing up, i also thought the kid with the red shirt was robin, and that thought that it seems many of us had, shows you that robin can be a part of this trilogy.
look at the joker, as soon as they announced the character was being used, everyone said they didnt know if anyone could do it as well as jack. then they announced heath ledger, and the forums were flooded with everyones “genius” opinion that they messed up by putting him in. Now weve found our new thing to complain about. its ridiculous, no matter the movies theres always millions of people who have their opinions, but let me tell you something. IT DOESNT MATTER. you are not a movie director, nor are you a comic writer. so dont say it cant be done well. period. now, Jordan you are the only sensible person ive read on this site so far, so i must applaud you for that, but for the all the no robin people, lemme ask you a question. would you have liked the X-Men if they didnt have Wolverine? would you have liked Spiderman without mary jane? you’re really sitting here saying that they shouldnt include arguably the second most important aspect of the batman canon? Robin is a part of batman, i dont care how dark or realistic you want to movies to be, he is a part of it. Im not saying they need to put him in the 2nd or the 3rd movies per se, im just saying that anyone who thinks robin has no place because hes stupid or gay or childish (HES A CHILD OF COURSE THE CHARACTER IS CHILDISH) you are a disgrace to comic fans. You are the person who sees X-Men and thinks that wolverine, storm, jean, Scott and professor X are the only X-men. And on the whole “they should have nightwing without robin” group we have going here. Shut up. the main reason nightwing exists is because robin grew up. how in the world could you explain there being a nightwing without him starting as robin, seriously please explain this to me oh genius’ of all things batman. If they had nightwing without robin, it would come off as this crazy guy trying to copy batman. And dont even get me started on rachel dawes, i understand that every movie hollywood makes needs at least a hint of a love story in it, but talk about changing your source material. and am i wrong or did someone seriously say that they should have batgirl but not robin…you deserve to be slapped. ive read both sets of comments about this topic and it amazes me how many people out there can voice their opinions in such an idiotic manner. “no robin!!” “dont name him dick, thats gay” jesus people, do you hear yourselves? Unfortunately hollywood has a knack for ruining comic movies, but thats not the fault of the characters ruined. Two-Face was nothing more than the riddlers sidekick in the 90s franchise, but no ones complaining about him being used, so how can you complain about robin because the chris o’donnell version sucked so bad? Now that ive gotten my venting about this out, im going to go back to my “view, dont comment” style of reading, and please people unless you know what your talking about and have read some of the comics or at least have a basic view of the canon…just shut up. please
July 4th, 2008 at 1:37 am
@ Matt
I nearly crapped my pants when I read that. Fantastic.
Why would you want to introduce more protagonists? Its a slippery slope that can go south really fast. Though Nolan does know what he’s doing…
Whats the average age of a /film reader? That B. Taylor kid is just ridiculous.
July 4th, 2008 at 2:06 am
I would prefer if they left Robin out of it, since it would be the last one. But making Robin cool isn’t that hard… They could make the green on his “costume” much darker, make him a bit older, a bit more muscly but still agile. And he could jump around buildings alot like the hunchback of notre dame… hehe…
July 4th, 2008 at 3:18 am
IMO, the problem with putting Robin in the third film would be having another origin story to tell. Altough “Begins” did pull it off, I’m glad “The Dark Knight” doesn’t have that kind of baggage. If I remember it right (trying to black out the memory), the Robin persona in “Forever” also appears only in the third act. Loeb is right, that’s the way to do it, but it didn’t work the first time.
I’m not totally against it – if Nolan is doing another sequel. I could imagine Anton Yelchin als Dick Grayson. Could work.
July 4th, 2008 at 4:25 am
Yeah, it would work if you give Robin some dark tone. Some young (Not 13 years, maybe 16 or 18) dude with parkour-skills or something. It would work if Nolan only tried, but i guess we never gonna see that. Nolan already stated that he dislikes the Robin character.
July 4th, 2008 at 5:00 am
Including Robin in Nolan’s version of Batman doesn’t make any sense, if The Dark Knight can be compared to Godfather 2 and Heat, that sounds like a new direction, something fresh. I thought that it would have been great to make a Batman that followed the Dark Victory storyline, I’ve changed my mind on that. You gotta remember that Nolan is making a film, not a comic. How Robin is potrayed in Dark Victory, works because its in a comic format, the Robin can be a kid, dress campy and pull stunts, how the hell do you do that realisticly in Nolan’s version? My bet is if Nolan sticks true to the gritty, soul searching version of Batman, keep the characters real and think of it as more than a comic book flick, we’re in for a good time.
July 4th, 2008 at 5:12 am
@ Matt
at a local comic shop, there is a Wanted sign on the wall, with a picture of Morrison in it, stating that he is wanted for his atrocious crimes against comics in general. this was back when he f-ed up Xmen… i usually read trades, so i’ve read Batman and Son and been appalled, but haven’t read what Morrison has done recently, but i trust that it’s crappy.
STILL
that doesn’t mean that an incarnation of Robin should be necessarily ruled out.
July 4th, 2008 at 5:36 am
I THINK BALE HAS A POINT I DONT WANT BALE TO LEAVE IS ROLE HE IS THE BEST BATMAN, LIKE THE JOKER WOULD SAY IN THE OLD ADAN WEST VERSION NOW HEAR THIS NOW HEAR THIS IF YOU MADE A MOVIE ALL BY ITS SELF MAYBE CALLED THE LIFE OF DICK GRAYSON AND HAVE A GOOD PLOT BEHIND THAT MOVIE IT WOULD SELL BUT IF YOU JUST BRING IN ROBIN IN THE NEW BATMAN PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY THIS SUCKS BECAUSE OF THE PLOT BEHIND IT ALL TO ORDER TO MAKE IT HAPPEN ROBIN HAS TO COME OUT ALL BY HIMSELF IN HIS OWN MOVIE
July 4th, 2008 at 5:52 am
I don’t see it happening in these Nolan films, but I like the idea of Robin as a computer/tech assistant (anonymous or otherwise) or even a personal AI that batman develops. It’s probably a little too sci-fi, but it’s just a thought.
It doesn’t really matter. Robin is not happening in these films. Perhaps, Nolan can destroy your childhood 20 years from now (don’t say it can’t happen).
July 4th, 2008 at 7:41 am
There are 12 new clips with new footage on IGN! But I refuse 2 watch them….
July 4th, 2008 at 8:16 am
David,
Yes, Morrison is batshit crazy, but he’s a fantastic writer and I’ll always pick up whatever he’s working on. As far as F’ing up the X-Men? Wrong. The continuity was screwed up in the entire Marvel Universe way before Morrison wrote New X-Men (in fact, read his introduction to the first TPB). And the beloved Claremont was back on another X-Men series during the same time, writing characters like a 12-year-old.
Loeb gave us some of the best Batman story arcs, but he also, more recently is partly responsible for Heroes, which has yet to live up to its potential.
July 4th, 2008 at 8:26 am
@ casual fan 21
OMG someone else has read a comic book. Amazing. Thankyou.
@potato
“Nolan is making a film not a comic” Actually Nolan is making a film based on a comic. That means he should be including the characters in the comic.
There is no Nightwing without Robin. It blows my mind that people don’t understand the characters at all, have clearly never read a comic yet feel like they have a good grasp on how Batman should play out.
Batgirl your level of homophobia absolutely blows my mind. The fact that this debate can’t help but dive into “he’s gay” is really sad and further points to the fact that these comments are being made by douchebags who don’t read comics.
July 4th, 2008 at 8:56 am
NO Robin. Batman is till set in the “year one” /”year two” era… if you’re going to put him in the franchise it’s WAAAAY too early. Put Robin in after you have exhausted all the good villians and need something else to move the movies in another direction. They need to worry less about Robin and more about Nolan… specifically keeping him as director at all costs.
July 4th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Leave Robin out of the next movie, i don’t care about dick/jason/tim they all suck. Just leave it as Batman kicking ass all over the place. I still think that there needs to be a villian called The Shoemaker who gets killed off very early, just for retribution for a certain couple of movies
July 4th, 2008 at 9:24 am
I trust that as long as Nolan is directing Batman films they are in good hands, and won’t disappoint.
July 4th, 2008 at 9:51 am
No Robin, please. I think his addition to the films would make them too…gimmick-y. Granted, they are based off a comic series, but, I don’t know, trying to throw the sidekick in now seems like jumping the gun a bit, going along with what Marty said above me. Batman’s got enough on his plate now without tagging on a sidekick.
July 4th, 2008 at 9:51 am
The only Teenager/young adult to ever star in a Batman film has to be Terry McGinnis for the Batman Beyond movie. Robin just makes Batman a member of the Super Ambiguously Gay Duo.
July 4th, 2008 at 10:58 am
For you to exhaust all the villains you would be in the 15th or 20th Batman movie, the rogues gallery is too diverse to possible be exhausted. They aren’t following the year one year two stuff, that’s clear from the choice of the characters they’ve introduced. They’re influenced by the year one story because they want to tell an origin story. They can’t have time move so slowly, each Bat man movie can’t be a literal year of time from the previous film.
Has anyone read year one? I would love for you to tell me how year one fits with Batman Begins, I would love even more for you to explain to me how Year Two could even be connected to these films at all.
Remember that sweet part in Year One where Batman was fighting the Scarecrow, and Ra’s? Oh man that was amazing. I think my favorite part was how that didn’t happen at all. Good job on seeing a copy of Year One at Chapters and almost flipping through it enough to almost grasp what the story was about.
I hope Nolan never leaves, because as long as he stays it continues to cement Marvel as the company with better films, and films that stick much closer to the source material. Batman Begins was a dull slow moving superhero flick.
What was it about Begins that made it so rad again?
Was it the invention of Rachel Dawes?, the change in ethnicity and total revision of Ra’s? How about how the Scarecrow was a thug with a potato sack on his face? Yeah those were pretty sweet. Ooo how about how Lucius Fox is a weapons developer? Maybe how Batman is totally without a personalty(other than being mad) and solves crimes by being a thug? Maybe how Batman wrecked half a city in that hideous batmobile? Yep that was sure a fantastic film. Good job comic buffs.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:05 am
was bruce timm the only writer to handle robin correctly? i never had a problem with the robin character in the original animated series.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Bruce Timm is the only one who’s handled Batman correctly in media at all.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Robin would definitely not fit into Christopher Nolan’s vision of Batman. The only reason they would maybe include Robin in these films is to make the films more approprate for children which I HIGHLY doubt that they will do that. After seeing Robin in Batman Forever, I instantly formed an intense hatred towards the character, like INTENSE hatred. I personally agree with Bale on this subject. ROBIN WILL NOT, AND DOES NOT, FIT IN WITH THIS TONE OF BATMAN, okay? Just get over it. Robin sucks, we all know this, Nightwing is better. Batman is a one-man show, get over that too. Batman rules, and if I even hear them mention Dick Grayson or anything to do with Robin in the newer Batman films I will go crazy. Robin Sucks, thats it. Get over it.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
there are a lot of fans that find it hard to believe that robin, as a character, has survived this long in the comics. he’s pretty lame and we all know it. and he seriously cramps batman’s style. every good take on the character plain ignores or seiously marginalises robin. the whole bat-family thing is ill-conceived…it completely contradicts the character as most have come to love him, especially through the nolan movies. i hte nothing more than reading a good batman story with his teen sidekick showing up for no other reason that ‘it’s robin, he has to be there!’
the only characters the next movie needs to worry about are CATWOMAN and THE RIDDLER. is there really anyone who wouldn’t wanna see nolan’s version of those two before he jumps ship?
July 4th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
You can do Robin if you do him All Star Batman style. A punk kid that finds extreme violence a little to easy even for Batman’s taste. Nolan could make Robin cool, especially if they don’t actually make him Robin until the end of the movie. Not my first choice for the final chapter though.
July 4th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Optimus Prime needs to stop watching shitty movies and read a comic book. Thanks for your valued opinion, congrats on having seen a movie.
Dumbass.
July 4th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
wait, OPTIMUS PRIME? OP IS ROBIN?
WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME THIS?
July 4th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
If they did it like Robin: Year One, it could totally work. Parents killed in extorion scheme lands in orphanage which is basicly a gladiator academy. Batman enlist Grayson to find Tony Zuco. Just Think Lost season 3 Richard Alert finding young Ben Linus and this thing could be pretty cool. Seaking of Linus, What About Micheal Emerson as The Riddler?
July 4th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Im kinda hoping Its gonna be a Clayface or Manbat flick though.
July 4th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I don’t really get all the Robin hate. Yeah he can be a little lame and people will always make the stupid gay jokes, but Nolan wouldn’t let Robin be like that. He would reinvent the character to fit his Batman world. The only real problem I see with having Robin is that if the 3rd movie ends the series, then its almost pointless to develop the character. Though it would be interesting if he didn’t become Robin until the very last moment of the movie. Have the main villain (please be Riddler, please be Riddler) somehow be connected to Dick and have him kill his parents. Either Batman or Robin should be reluctant to work with each other, but in the end he realizes his fate. Idk, I just think that it would be good to end the series showing that Batman has grown up. These films are suppose to be Batman’s early years, so what better way to show that he’s moving beyond that than having him become a parent with Robin.
July 4th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Why not a girl Robin??
or is everyone forgetting the best Batman graphic novel, “The Dark Knight Returns”? Making the next film based on the DKR, would make for an awesome addition to the batman movie franchise…
July 4th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
like a lot of people on here, i don’t think it’s necessarily a stretch to make an interesting movie based on robin, (i’m surprised no one has mentioned “grayson” so far. see: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XiZuvJ48MZ0) i definitely think he’s worthy of his own film series though, and as far as the nolan films go, i don’t think it’s necessary to include him. batman is a strong enough character in the context of this particular series that attempting to throw in another lead would really drag the story down. if done right, it could definitely rival nolan’s films in terms of character development.
as far as villains though, i don’t know why people are entertaining any notions other than two-face for the third film. after all of the hints and tidbits that have been dropped in previews and viral marketing, to develop that character and then not use him, is just a waste of film. riddler would be pretty cool, but to then throw him in with two face, even if done well still hearkens back far too much to batman forever.
given the character’s history (former top district attorney turned criminal mastermind) a film centered around two face would definitely have a lot of potential to be an exceedingly brutal gangster film, and could easily push for an r rating, (given his gross deformity, i don’t think its out of the question.) as well, nolan has spent two films dealing with themes of psychosis and duality. there are really no other characters where this is more obvious than with two face.
and he’s one of the most realistic characters in the series - relatively speaking. he doesn’t have any gimmicks, really. he doesn’t run around the city in spandex. he doesn’t have gadgets. he is this mentally fractured individual. and unlike joker, he doesn’t even have this level of dark humor to buffer the audience with. he is just dark. if that’s not enough, as dent, two face has this past with commissioner gordon and batman. out of all the classic villains, he knows them the best, which makes him perhaps the most dangerous.
my .02
July 5th, 2008 at 2:02 am
What I would like to see happen, is in the third movie he gets introduced. His character develops as the movie goes on but becomes an apprentice instead of a sidekick. Bruce will teach him everything and at the end of the movie he becomes Robin. He doesn’t even have to participate in the final battle. They should then make a spin off that happens a few years latter with Robin as the main character. Bale could make a cameo or two as Batman and we can see Robin develop into Nightwing. From there we can see a Nightwing series of movies.
July 5th, 2008 at 5:58 am
Robin is fine. just dont make him live in wayne manor or in the same house as Bruce, (that is kinda GAY). Batman can use some help once in a while, that can be Robins role, not Batmans full-time sidekick.
btw: you have to trust Nolan (if he outta put Robin), what did everybody think about Heath as the Joker?
July 5th, 2008 at 11:45 am
I agree that Robin is a well developed and established character, however I can’t see him working into Nolan’s Batman trilogy. I have no doubt that Nolan would create a Robin that fits into the trilogy, but would HIS Robin be true to the original? I think it would be too dark and too different from the Robin we all know. I agree that Robin has his place, but maybe in the next Batman films.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
OMGosh I’ve got it! SO, Robin is actually Bruce and Rachel’s bastard son! Bruce got Rachel preggo before he left for Princeton. But didn’t know and 9 months after she had a son but gave him up. She didn’t even tell Bruce when he came back b/c she was ashamed/angry. That’s why she had to save that little boy at the end of Batman Begins b/c he reminded her of her lost son and why she’s with Dent instead of Bruce in this movie! That would make the kid somewhere in his teens and what they don’t know is that “Robin” broke out of the orphanage really young and is part of the underground crime circle in Gothham! So Rachel finds him doing research and in one scene where Batman is cleaning house the truth all comes out! Voila, a badass Robin with personal issues that gets taken the wing of his real father.
And before anybody shoots me I was just having some fun with all the die hards that are calling foul on this whole Robin thing. I’ve always thought the whole Batman/Robin relationship was intended to be more father/son/older brother but comes across with gay undertones for some but I think Nolan could do him justice if he so chose to…as for him fitting in this trilogy I think the timing is all off. Like it was mentioned before these movies are happening one right after the other so I feel like bringing in Robin now would seem a bit rushed, imo. I don’t see how it would be the end of the world if he wasn’t in the third movie but I do feel like people saying that and that Robin should axed completely are two different things and should be treated as such. Chris O’Donnell did what he could with what was given. As for his age…it would have to be someone you could believe with Bale regardless.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I get Loeb’s take on this. The Robin character in the Batman mythology has always been a writing challenge and is most often badly handled.
However, both the death of Robin and the break down in relations with Grayson etc. are an intrinsic part of the Batman psychology. I can’t imagine the Batman of Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns without Robin(s) in his history and since Nolan’s Batman has been crafted with much the same noir influenced I see no reason why that history could not be crafted with the same grit, pace and credibility. It’s all in the story telling, Robin doesn’t need to be the stropy and arrogant little shit, he is when he is 2 dimentionally written in primary colours.
On the other hand the name Robin itself is always going to suck, I can’t see a way out of that loop, with any quantity of great writing.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
to Jordan2099:
What I meant is Robin wouldn’t fit in to Christopher Nolan’s version of the Batman films. I’ve read a few Batman comics before, and Robin was okay until Joel Schumacher ruined him forever, thats why I say he sucks now. But, I never really liked Robin to much, he’s okay but I always saw Batman as a no-sidekick hero, and thats how Batman should be until maybe the fifth Batman film. According to Christopher Nolan, Robin is somewhere in a crib out there during the events of the Dark knight.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Forget about Robin in this movie series. I think they could make a successful television show on the CW with the Robin character. They could find some teenage actor that the girls all love to play him. Here is a kid who is dealing with the death of his parents, becoming an orphan, being an arrogant side-kick fighting crime, and the most challenging things of all, high school and girlfriends. Pair this show up with Smallville and the CW would have something. I wouldn’t watch it, but I know a lot of people would.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
I think Robin from the get go was a mistake back when he was first introduced in the 40s, and I think it would be a disaster to introduce him in this new round of Batman movies.
no Robin. ever.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
In my opinion Tim Drake would be a better on screen Robin that Dick Grayson, but you can’t tell the Batman story and skip over Dick Grayson.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
The only time Robin was ever good was in Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns. If for some crazy genius creative way, Nolan was to introduce Robin, I’d hope Robin would be a girl, and wouldn’t ever dress up and only be Batman’s eyes and ears on the streets.
Or we go with Chimaera’s idea, but still no dress up for Robin.
July 12th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I think have a street wise kid as batmans extra eyes and ears is a great idea! Robin would not be the type of Robin that jumps from building to building with bats. He would not be able to fight ethier because of his small stature. He would be smart and cunning and would assist batman every now and then…
July 14th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Robin doesn’t fit into Christopher Nolan’s Batman universe. Trying to put Robin on film destroys the atmosphere of the Nolan-Batman universe. This series is one in which Batman is clearly meant to be on his own.
The only way they could ever include Robin in the third movie is having Two Face kill his parents in the second act, only see brief moments of Dick Grayson trying to cope with the death of his parents, and have him somehow capture Bruce’s interest near the end of the movie. They could effectively foreshadow Dick’s recruitment like they foreshadowed the Joker being a major villain at the end of Batman Begins.
This would actually help create a nice bridge to a second series that a different crew would most likely helm considering that Nolan and co. will probably move on after the third movie. The series could deal with Dick’s training under Bruce in the first movie, his disenchantment and frustration with Bruce in the second movie, and finally his departure in the third movie. If they really wanted to they could end that series by alluding to Nightwing’s creation.
Will this happen? Absolutely not. But it’s the way I would like to see Robin brought in. My original preference would have been a “Death in the Family” type storyline that would be a major centerpiece of the second series, but I don’t think Warner Bros. will want anyone to touch the Joker now that it appears to be Ledger gave the definitive performance of that role. The other problem is that fans would probably have to much of a hissy fit over Dick Grayson replacing Jason Todd as the Robin that gets the axe.
July 17th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
the have to do robin at some point but its how they do it remember the 90’s animated show and how the relation ship was robin was away at collage they could do that have him appear in one movie and then gone part way throught another one or somthing
July 19th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Give Robin his own freakin’ film, keep him out of Nolan’s Batman!!!!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 1:02 am
If Robin Fans want to see Robin n Batman…Adam West’s Batman,Batman Forever n Batman&Robin is ur answer..Dont try to mess up on-going Batman movies….
We dont want Robin’s story 2 be explained in Batman Movies..In comics,most of characters have crossed eachother…If everyone tries to introduce characters in the movie…Then what we will have is a Big-Budget Messed-Up Introduction Movie..with no story n no action…It will be more dissapointing…
Look what Marvel guys are doing…They are planning to make a Big Movie…But First ,they are introducing them…like Hulk,Iron Man,Captain America….They are members of Avengers..
And Really If U guys are so Despo to see (Gay)Robin,Here is a Good Solution..
Give Robin his own movie (Like Catwoman,but his original storyline should not be altered) Make couple of movies…If the 1st movie works,then make a 2nd one (which is not possible bcoz 1st is surely going to be a disaster)and try to connect to Batman Series …
July 20th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
i agree with Lorb that there is a place fro Robin, but for different reasons:
My coworker had seen Batman Begins but wasn’t up to speed on the Dark Knight’s villains so I had to run down the whole Rogues Gallery: The Joker, The Riddler, The Penguin, Catwoman, Ras Al Ghul, Killer Croc, Clayface, Dr. Freeze, Two-Face, Bane, etc.
Then he asked if Robin was in one of the movies, which while I know he was, I refuse to talk about it. It’s like the most recent Superman movie that didn’t have Superman in it - only someone whom everyone thought was Superman.
His point was that they were making a more gritty Batman in the new movies and a grittier Gotham has no place for Robin. That idea got me thinking all day.
True enough. Robin is largely used as a marketing ploy to bring young children into the story lines of the Caped Crusader. This was especially true for the animated series produced by Bruce Timm. The studio suits were scared that grown ups wouldn’t watch a “cartoon” and that the stories were too “grown up” for little kids. So they forced the writers to include Robin and I think it sort of worked in a couple of ways.
One - kids loved to see someone their own age whooping bad guys alongside the world’s greatest detective. Two - hanging around with a twelve year old dressed like one of Santa’s elves really seems to lighten up the Dark Knight.
So I guess it works - it’s hard to tell a “griity” Batman story with the boy wonder prancing about.
Except that Robin may be the harshest, most terrifying Batman story there is .
Dick Grayson was a circus performer. His family, the Flying Graysons, were trapeze artists. Some gangsters were trying to shut said circus down so they cut the ropes on the trapezes and Dick’s mom and dad plummeted to their deaths in front of the circus audience and right before his eyes. And that’s not even the horrifying part.
I forget the particulars, but somehow Batman ends up on the scene and rescues young Grayson. Moved by the similarity between Dick’s newfound orphan status and his own at that age, Bruce Wayne adopts Dick Grayson, who then finds out he’s Batman and talks his way into a crime fighting apprenticeship.
How creepy is it for Bats to take a 12 year old and begin training him in combat techniques? So that he can join him in battle against homicidal psychopaths like the Joker? This is way beyond you can’t go outside until you practice your piano. This is like no Halloween Candy until you show me the proper technique for defending yourself against an axe-welding henchman. Now thats grit, but still it gets more disturbing.
I got to wondering why Batman brings Dick in. Lets face it, no one talks THE Batman into doing anything he doesn’t want to do. So what was he hoping for when he decided to take on a sidekick. A strategic advantage? Strength in numbers? From the Boy Hostage? I don’t think so.
What did he want? Redemption.
And the horrifying part? He failed.
He found innocence, dressed it in bright colors and brought it into the batcave - hoping it would bring light.
However, the darkness enveloped both of them.
Bruce Wayne could have been the father that Dick Grayson had lost. He had the means, the time and the understanding to be something to a young boy who had lost everything. He could have been his hero.
Instead, The Batman stole Robin’s childhood and fed it to the monster inside him. Still unsatisfied, the monster condemned both of them to an existence where shadows are the substance of their reality.
Eventualy “Robin” would become “Nightwing.”
Now thats a gritty story.
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I think Nolan can make Robin realistic just like he did with Heath Ledger and I trust him to do it. Also, an ideal person to play Robin in my opinion would be Shia La Beouf (Transformers the Movie, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Holes).
Any other actors that can play Robin?
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:38 am
I am not a fan of Robin but think he could work if he is introduced at the end of a film and then develops into Nightwing in the next film as stated above. That could be cool.
Also I just finished Dark Victory this morning and have to say that it is NOT a story about Robin. Dark Victory does include his origin but it is not a Robin origin story by any means and to say that he plays a “considerable role” is just inaccurate. Dick Grayson is not even introduced until the second half of the story and Robin is not seen until literally the last 20 pages of an almost 400 page story. His role in the plot is minimal and he is given no character arc or development aside from angry young orphan. The book contains probably 50 panels of Grayson/Robin in the whole book. Sorry for the rant but everything I read about this book talked about it being a Robin story and I don’t understand why that is. Not that I was disappointed because it is a good book and I don’t really like Robin anyway.
July 23rd, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Im just sayin this i loved the dark knight the best superhero movie ever. i think they should finish the series for HEATH why have all his work be wasted on the seqeul and not finish and close wat hes don. I think they should use 2 face and riddler as well as a third villian 2 top th cake
July 24th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I think the idea of having a young robin trying to prove his worth might work. it gives the impression of a naive child that batman is trying to steer out of a life of crime. i remember the robin from the animated series that lived on the streets as a punk… it’s a concept that can totally be molded into the look and feel of the triology.
and harley quinn SHOULD be in it ;) perhaps switch the story up a bit and have dr. harleen quinzel as bruce’s love interest and harley as jokers sidekick
July 24th, 2008 at 12: