Yesterday, I posted on Christian Bale’s reported dismissal of Robin—both the character and his place in Christopher Nolan’s Batman franchise—and the comments continue to unfold with incredibly lengthy diatribes widely in favor of Bale’s sentiments. Twenty-three words can unleash hundreds of thousands, and now highly respected comic writer Jeph Loeb, whose credits include both The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, has come out in defense of Robin/Dick Grayson’s place in a Batman 3. What’s worth noting is that both of the connected books mentioned above have long been considered by geeks to be fair game for a sequel(s) to The Dark Knight…if we’re so lucky. Here’s what Loeb told MTV regarding his vision for “the next step” in these high water mark superhero films..

“Take the time to tell the story properly,” Loeb said. “There is a story of Dick Grayson and how he becomes Robin that is extremely moving and very helpful. …[Grayson/Robin] doesn’t understand why it is that he needs to do this and Bruce doesn’t understand why he’s doing it either because he’s not a parent. He doesn’t know how to be a parent,” Loeb said. “And together, they make each other better people. So that for me would be the next step.”

Right now, Robin is considered to be a hex for the series due to Joel Schumacher’s legendary wack-job with the character/costumes. Combined with Robin’s oft-pubescent, effete depiction, he automatically seems like a flamboyant anomaly to Nolan’s world of hardboiled crime staked in realistic technology and sophistication. Of course, Nolan’s take on Robin would certainly not resemble anything like the admittedly biased image above, but Robin would still prove a creative challenge to adapt unlike any other character in his mythology. Oddly enough, Bale stated back in 2005 that one of his favorite Batman comics was Dark Victory, in which Robin plays a considerable role…

“But the two [Batman stories] that I liked particularly were Dark Victory and The Long Halloween. They just had some really fantastic imagery in there of the severity of Batman and everything and I would kind of imitate those positions.”

There’s speculation that The Daily Mail falsely attributed the Robin diss to Bale; however, it’s equally as likely that Bale simply browsed through various graphic novels sent to him by DC (as he informed fans in the link above) with casual interest. As it stands, Bale hates Robin. Haha. If the third film is indeed the last, might it seem strange to have entirely overlooked such a well recognized part of canon? While /Film doesn’t wish to see Robin appear in any form, Loeb does make a nice and knowing effort to illustrate how it could be done tastefully…

“I wouldn’t let him become Robin until the third act, if that. I think that’s the other problem when you tell that story is that there’s this rush to put him in a costume by the end of the first 20 minutes and in that case I think it’s a disaster…”

Discuss: Do Loeb’s comments change your stance on the appropriateness/inclusion of Robin in a sequel to The Dark Knight? Is it worth the risk and if so, how old would Robin need to be for it to work? What do you make of Bale’s compliments to Dark Victory but dislike for Robin?

Bonus Disuss: Is Chris O’Donnell’s Robin the lamest, worst outfitted superhero ever put to film? Has anyone offered a picture of Robin to O’Donnell for an autograph circa 2008? Do tell.

  • Kip
    This reminds me of an old History Channel special on comics. There talking about the decision to kill Jason Todd and one day one of the writers goes into a deli and the owner knows what he does for a living and he goes off on how dare he kill Robin. No one really cares/likes Robin until you try and put him in a corner. Then Patrick Swayze shows up and alerts you to the problem of putting Robin in the corner.
  • Captain Awesome
    Leave Robin out. Batman is a great on his own. I don't want some obnoxious kid or tween in this. And Bale is right if they tried to squeeze him into a third film like this. I don't want this to stray from Batman as it is. Jumping into the "too comic book-y" realm side of things.

    The last thing I want is them giving screen time to some NAMBLA members wet dream.
  • Baron Von Cheddar
    If Robin fits with the story that Nolan wants to tell, then fine. Don't shoehorn him into this series of films out of some bizarre sense of obligation to include every character from the Batman comics mythos. Nolan's is a film world not a comics world. Not everything is gonna work.
  • Hunter Stephenson
    @ CA

    Two comments in, and NAMBLA is already dragged into it?
  • Captain Awesome
    What can I say? I'm a simple man with child molestation on the mind.
  • YoungZe
    Jeph Loeb can suck monkey balls. That motherfucker ruined the Ultimates in about every way.
  • Captain Awesome
    YoungZe,

    I never read TU when he took it over. That bad huh?
  • Well, I didn't read his take on The Ultimates (which, from what of it I have read, is a pretty kick ass series) but Jeph Loeb is definitely my favorite Batman writer and he did a damn good job incorporating Robin into Dark Victory. That being said, if they were willing to pace Robin's intro (as Loeb suggested), I think he'd be a good addition. But you'd need a punk-ass kid who could stand his own opposite Bale, which may be tough to find.

    On the Chris O'Donnell note, he wasn't absolutely terrible, but he was way too old for the part. The writer's and casting should be blamed for Robin showing up in that form, not O'Donnell.
  • Vin
    I think the proportions of Long Halloween/Dark Victory's awesomeness to the quite smelly Ultimates 3 justifies his right to not be subjected to monkey balls sucking.
  • M&Co
    The guy makes an interesting point - but the fact is that the character just doesn't fit within Nolan's universe. There would need to be some spectacular writing and performance to make it work.

    Also they might want to rethink the name too, unless he's an ex-con and Batman saved him from a life of "robin" banks : D
  • ROBIN IS GOOD COMIC
    Stop IT.
    Leave Robin if your going to keep trashing his name and loyelty. Robin is realer than Joker and Riddler. You need to do you write better about Robin. Riddler tells riddles and kills Batman Robin lived in a circus and learned how to fight and become strong. I am 1 4 and I can fight so keep talking bad about him. He is the best comicbook hero of all time and that is why he has more comics than even Batman or Catwoman. Have you read Robin? You should and then you write new talking about his powers and his new movie that is coming out.
    Brian Taylor
  • M&Co
    Oh dear.
  • haha
  • YoungZe
    Captain Awesome:

    You wouldn't believe it. He takes everything Millar and Hitch did and threw it into shit. Thor is talking like this 616 version now, because people think it's cool. There is some weird Valkyrie babe at his side. Captain America hates when Bulls/Hawkeye swears, talking like some dude from the 50 (yeah i know, but Millars Cap wasn't like that). Hawekeye hates his live and looks like some kind of Ultimate Bullseye. The Comic starts with a porn video featuring Tony Stark and Black Widow on a big screen and every single Ultimates Member is watching it, like it's no big deal. Even Hawkeye (remember, Black Widow killed his family) and Tony who loved her. Venom has a cameo for like 3 panels. Pietro and his sis have no problem showing there "love" and again everyone is acting like it's normal. Wanda gets shot, Pietro gets Emo, Magneto joins, the brotherhood joins, the x-men joins, spider-man joins. The dialogs are incredibly stupid. It's like some 12 year old wrote that shit. At the end he throws more and more characters in and let them fight for no real reason. It's unbelievable.
  • Josh
    I actually thought Robin was one of the better things about "Batman & Robin." While the other characters were hamming it up, he actually seemed to be taking things semi-seriously.

    Anyway, I'm fine with Robin being introduced in the new Batman film franchise. However, I think his appearing in the third movie is a little too soon.

    Plus, Robin's costume would definitely need some work. After all, everything about it goes against Bruce Wayne's reasoning for the Batman suit.
  • I think it could work and what Loeb talks about is part of what could work about it.

    But if Nolan's Batman vision is indeed only going to be a trilogy, then I think it's too late to try and get Robin in there, at this point. Forcing a major character into the equation in the third act is not only unfair to a well-established character (see: Venom, Megatron, etc.) but also is pretty lame, story-wise. I think the Batman/Robin relationship (especially in a universe like the one Nolan has established) should have weight and the development of it shouldn't be crammed into two hours.
  • To be really quite honest, a Nolan Robin excites me. In the same way that Robin has been through so many different incarnations, there's nothing keeping the Robin that people hate so much and turning him/her into something completely different and dark. There's a lot of room here to work, and to shut the door completely is shortsighted - especially if biased from the SCHUMACHER films. He/She doesn't have to be a nitwit in a little green suit. Canon defenders would complain, but then again I already see plenty of Canon-defenders complaining here about the simple idea of Robin even being included in a 3rd movie. And yet Robin is such a large part of Batman Canon to begin with.

    I definitely see plenty of room to go with it, but yes... There is a high probability it could be a doomed decision if done poorly. But I'd trust Chris Nolan to do it more than anyone.
  • Hunter Stephenson
    @ Brian Taylor

    Please leave /Film and go to summer school/jail.
  • Thankyoufor
    no robin sorry
    no no no
  • Actually, Hunter, the more I think about it, maybe that was him auditioning for the part? haha.
  • Matt
    I think Robin would be too hard to pull off in Nolan's Batmans. He's a kid! And which one? Jason Todd sucked, and I've only liked the latest one during Identity Crisis. What I think would be really sweet is Nightwing. I just don't know if the fans would allow Nolan to skip over Grayson's Robin and go straight into Nightwing.

    Nolan's Nightwing would be freaking awesome.
  • Neil
    hahahahaha nice hunter, nice...way to reel 'em in with your story and then kick him off the site...but hey-you've got a point (jail sounds like the better alternative for him)
  • Jim Cozad
    Jeph Loeb can lick my balloon knot several times. He's an idiot.
  • david
    Loeb is a phenomenal writer, particularly of DC characters. it doesn't take any intelligence to say that he can "lick" or "suck" something - at least take a potshot at his work, implying vaguely that you may have read something sometime. i'm glad that he responded to these alleged comments of Bale's, because it means that hopefully, someone somewhere in WB and/or DC will be paying attention to how the next script is prepared.

    "Nolan's Batman Universe" does not exist on its own... it exists BECAUSE of DC's Batman, and all of the canon therein. the producers have some say in "Nolan's Batman" too, and i don't think that any producer or "fan" is giving a director free license to completely re-create a character when that director works on a film... i'd like to see what NOLAN's thoughts about Robin are... somebody work on that...
  • duca
    I'm not a die hard Batman fan. I've never read any of the comics, but I have watched all of the animated series's. I know that Robin probably won't fit in the current trilogy, but maybe in the next? I actually like Robin as a charactor. He keeps Bruce Wayne from going over the edge, which I think is a very important element which is being overlooked. I dunno... without Robin I just feel like there's a piece missing.
  • Captain Awesome
    Good Lord, YoungZe. That sounds horrific.

    haha, and who is this B. Taylor fellow?
  • Tristan
    wait, didn't Bale try out for the role of Robin in Batman Forvever?
  • junior
    It's funny that this post is after the Harry Potter one because I could totally picture someone like Radcliffe making the character of Robin work and his current comic costume would be great translated to screen.
  • Tristan
    edit: Forever

    my bad.
  • Matt
    back @ david

    If you've checked out the latest of DC's Batman, you'd kind of think they've lost their minds. This week, he's hooked on "weapons grade heroin" and sewing a new batsuit from homeless men's fabric...

    Oh, and his mother was gangbanged, with Alfred involved. I kind of like the "Nolan's Batman" a hell of a lot more than DC/Morrison's.
  • orange cinema
    Nolan/Bale's batman/wayne needs to figure out 'who he is' before he can take on a sidekick. plus, we don't know what 'the next step' should be, because we havn't seen TDK yet. nuff said.
  • CruzCostelo
    The only realistic way to put robin in Nolan's world is as if he started as batmans extra eyes, staying off battle, or even maybe stay that way because of the danger and so people dont link Wayne/Grayson with Batman/Robin. until he decides to make it on her own living Gotham and then become NightWing.
  • Zera
    Didn't Bale also audition for Robin back in 1995?
  • TimDrake
    Dont make him Dick Grayson, make him Tim Drake
    I thought the boy in the red shirt from Batman Begins was a reference to a potential Robin character.


    Im sure this was said already
  • Source
    Leave out Robin. Though Nightwing is more badass though. But still....
  • mikestir
    Catwoman done right in batman3 please. Use her origin from Year One.
    Robin would probably need an entirely new backstory for this series
  • B4tS
    i fully trust nolan for this. i'm sure that he won't do what sam raimi does in spiderman 3.

    realistic robin? why not. nolan could do it with the joker. but i'm hoping for catwoman's appearance.
  • kfizz
    I think he should just start out as night wing by himself. And is taken to train with batman like league of shadows stuff. That batman should see him self the day he wanted to kill the guy who gunned down his parents in Grayson. Since both of their parents died by thugs.
  • People aren't going to see a Batman movie to see the story of Robin told and have 1 or 2 villains thrown into the mix. I think we've seen that done to death. Batman Returns/Batman and Robin...SpiderMan 3...and I fear it will happen to the next Iron Man movie where presumably we will get War Machine...also with Robin you lose that sense of darkness that is so important to the Batman world. there are so many ways you can go with Batman there is no need to add Robin to the movie franchise...unless you want to kill it again...
  • Ciji
    First of all, let me state that I am a HUGE fan of Dick Grayson/Robin, Dick Grayson/Nightwing, and even Tim Drake/Robin. Yes, I voted (several times) for Jason Todd/Robin to get axed. I got grounded for a month I racked up so many phone charges.

    However, "Robin" the character has no place in Nolan's Batman trilogy. Perhaps Long Halloween or Dark Victory would be great movies 4 and 5, but as The Dark Knight seems perched to set-up Two Face as the main villain, Robin would be out of place. I want to see Bats/Bruce Wayne struggle with helping his former friend and now future enemy.
  • Ciji
    Matt:

    Don't EVEN get me started on all that Infinite Crap I mean, Crisis bullshit!
  • jj gonzo
    ROBIN will ruin the bat franchise
    think of this bat trilogy is year
    one batman and please... NO ROBIN!!!
    if ROBIN is in the next film.. WE RIOT!!!
    see you all @ comic con 08!!!
  • krackajap
    IMO, the sentiment that Robin has no place in Nolan's Batman stems from the lack of understanding of the character. As he says, when you think of Robin the first thing that you think of is that horrendous portrayal in the other movies. Just like when Nolan hears Penguin he says he has no place in his Batman because of what Burton had done with the character. The real Penguin would actually fit in perfectly with the Gotham that Nolan has created just like how I also believe Robin would also have a place.
  • Jordan2099
    Robin has been in the Bat books for decades for a reason, he's important to the character. If you don't understand how that works, then you've never read a batman comic. You don't have a character remain in the foreground for this length of time without having it work.

    I'd like to point out to people who think its fine to alter the source material to fit a directors vision of that character, its a movie called Superman Returns, and Bryan Singer thought it would be cool to make Clark a daddy, and to have Lex Luthor act like the villain in a Vaudeville play.

    T
  • Jordan2099
    Also to say anything negative about Jeph Leob in regards to his understanding of the Bat Family is ridiculous: The Long Halloween, Haunted Knight, and Dark Victory are perfect examples of just how ell he understands the character. The books are pitch perfect, and a far cry better than Frank Millers, "he's pissed of and mean now" Batman.
  • Jordan2099
    And again krackajap demonstrates how reading a comic allows you to better understand what Robin does.

    Nicely done.
  • DoogleberryWinkler
    Robin has ALREADY appeared in this new Batman franchise. You'll see. He is in Batman Begins, I'm sure of it, there's a kid who gets a glimpse of Batman at an early stage in the projects (or whatever they're called) and he is given one of Batman's tools as he disappears back into the night. This kid is also saved by him (and Katie) at the end when the poor part of the city is being affected by the toxin. Being from the poor part of the city, his parents could have been killed off by some crazy person during the Asylum breakout too, thus you could see why this character would pop up later after becoming obsessed and idolising Batman from this childhood encounter.. ultimately becoming Robin. Nolan does this kind of thing in his films too - they're like giant puzzles - hints are given early on as to what will happen later. For instance, the 'two' birds being used in the magic trick at the start of THE PRESTIGE which is a massive clue what one of the twists of the movie was. That is why I'm sure Nolan included this little boy (who also has a dirty red t-shirt on, I might add). Nolan may not intend to include Robin in his films yet, but for anyone that takes over the franchise... there's bits like this that keep the continuity and link everything up. I suspect the kid might not be old enough to become Robin yet, given the timeline of when part II and III will take place. But the option is there now, to be exploited later.

    The character of Robin could be like Harvey Dent in a sense too, which ties in with Nolan's vision. In that, given what happens to Harvey in part II, Batman is determined that no one go through the same thing and fall to the 'dark side' when originally starting off as a crimefighter. He is insistent that no one else become involved in what he does, and he hates that he has inspired other 'superheroes'. All you need is a talented actor to play Robin who doesn't come off as whiney annoying sidekick. He has to be a seperate entity that actually can hold his own.
  • EsEs
    I can see it now, Robin introduced in the 3rd film as played by Shia LeBeouf.

    All across the country comic book fans and film buffs commit mass suicide.
  • BATGIRL
    i think i'll cry if they put robin in.
    NO ROBIN!
    GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY!

    (but if they DO put him in (please, god, don't let it happen) don't name him dick, that just adds to the faggotness.)

    i agree w/ christian bale;
    he's hot and smart :)
  • Jordan2099
    If he were actually doing that, that sucks because its ignoring the origins, and its changing the concept of the character too much.
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