James Cameron revealed at the Microsoft Advance ‘08 event that Avatar will be the first film to feature photo-realistic characters which actually look real.
“Avatar will make people truly experience something. One more layer of the suspension of disbelief will be removed. All the syn-thespians are photo-realistic. Now that we’ve achieved it, we discovered CG characters in 3D look more real than in 2D. Your brain is cued it’s a real thing not a picture and discounting part of image that makes it look fake,” said Cameron. “Avatar is the single most complex piece of filmmaking ever made. We have 1,600 shots for a 2.5 hour movie. It’s not with a single CGI character, like King Kong or Gollum. We have hundreds of photo-realistic CG characters.”
Has Cameron overcome the Uncanny Valley? For those who don’t know, Uncanny Valley is basically a theory that “when robots and other facsimiles of humans look and act almost, but not entirely, like actual humans, it causes a response of revulsion among human observers.” Imagine a graph showing the progression of realism in computer generated characters. The “valley” in question is a dip in that proposed graph of the positivity of human reaction as a function of a robot’s lifelikeness.
The theory is that “if a entity is sufficiently non-humanlike, then the humanlike characteristics will tend to stand out and be noticed easily, generating empathy. On the other hand, if the entity is ‘almost human’, then the non-human characteristics will be the ones that stand out, leading to a feeling of strangeness’ in the human viewer.” For example, many moviegoers complain that the humans in Hironobu Sakaguchi’s 2001 computer animated film Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within look like zombies (see image below).
Cameron says that he has created “a complete ecosystem of phantasmagorical plants and creatures, and a native people with a rich culture and language.” Hundreds of photo-realistic CG characters which supposedly surpass the uncanny valley? Call me skeptical. Call me excited. I’m really hoping that this movie will live up to the hype. Quotes like the one above get me really excited for the endless possibilities, but then the quote below brings me back to earth.
“I don’t know whether will be great film from narrative and critical standpoint,” said Cameron. “The experience of Avatar will be an experience unlike any other movies.”
I would also describe The Wachowski Brothers’ Speed Racer as “an experience unlike any other movie”, but at the end of the day, it doesn’t mean much. In other news, James Cameron also revealed at the event that Ubisoft will be releasing a 3D version of a game based on the movie, which will run on a standard XBox 360 - complete with 3D glasses! First-person shooters will become true first-person experiences, he said.
“If you play Avatar on a 50 inch monitor, you’re in the game.”
Again, very skeptical and very excited.
sources: searchenginewatch.com, marketsaw, cnet, wikipedia
May 21st, 2008 at 3:17 am
I agree with your last comment.
It’s what ruins most CG characters for me. Films like the American and Japanese Final Fantasy films, along with Beowulf, had it all over the place. It was hard not to see them as Real Doll movies. In terms of an “all-cg character” Kong was the best, I know he wasn’t a “human”. But Kong had the most realistic eye and facial behavior I have ever seen. Everything else on his body followed those qualities beautifully. Weta definitely set the bar in that category.
But I guess in the realm of all-cg characters in all-cg worlds, this is something I am heavily looking forward to be overcomed.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:14 am
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Also, if the CG characters aren’t human it doesn’t count. Arguably I think the dinosaurs all the way back in Jurassic Park 1 overcome that problem in many scenes, as does Gollum. Fantastical characters are easier to fake - photo realistic humans aren’t here yet. It sounds to me like Cameron doesn’t really have a grasp on what most people are talking about when they refer to the uncanny valley.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:36 am
“Fantastical characters are easier to fake”
Not when they’re standing next to real actors or interacting with humans. Those two still are taking much work to be on the same level. They’re definitely easy when they’re in an environment that matches their computer-created design.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:59 am
Well, it should be visually interesting to see if he can create a realistic interaction between the CG actors and the real actors. Pirates of the Caribbean 2 & 3 for all their faults did look amazing because of the character designs of Davey Jones that just looked real.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:04 am
While I’m very very excited for this film am I the only one who’s a little sick of every little piece of news coming out about this story is someone from the movie talking about how groundbreaking it is. I’m just a little sick of it, thats all. Still sounds good.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:16 am
WillTheSecond,
Davey Jones was great, but he was also a mix of the actor actually being there with make-up. CG enhancements were laid on top of that afterward. So it wasn’t a complete CG character in that sense.
He was definitely well done and such a cool creature design.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:04 am
i think that the title of this article is misguiding all of us , because i don’t think there is anything in Cameron’s comments about creating realistic “humans”, he told about “syn-thespians”, and as i know he means people from another planet(pandora) who are not humans as we know them…however i have a strong belief in Saint JAMES!
May 21st, 2008 at 7:10 am
THIS is the technology that should be put to use in the next Terminator movies. They just need a likeness of Arnold, the T-1000 and the blonde terminatrix and they can then have dozens of them running around in the movie. That would be great.
And since they are robots anyhow, the “zombie-ish” look won’t be a problem.
Hell, some people are still questioning whether the the Governator is humanoid.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:11 am
why not just cast real humans?
May 21st, 2008 at 7:13 am
That’s a actually a good point that Amir brings up and backs up what w smith said. If James Cameron is using the CG specifically to create the “syn-thespians”, how can we cognitively create an uncanny valley if we don’t knowingly understand how they move/interact with the world around them. If we create the uncanny valley because we disassociate with the CG humans because they don’t move like we do that’s understandable, but not for a being that is otherworldly such as the syn-thespians. I can see where Captain Awesome is coming from with needing super photorealistic CG characters so their interactions with the real characters flow seamlessly throughout the movie.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:14 am
I’m really looking forward to seeing the most realistic Appa ever! : )
May 21st, 2008 at 7:30 am
Okay, this kind of talk is honestly starting to bug me.
1. Fine, Mr. Cameron. I will accept your challenge about the realism of your CGI. Ten bucks says they look like waxy, moving corpses like every other crummy motion-capture character that’s tried to look “true to life.”
2. If you ARE right, Cameron, fine. Wow. You replaced a real person with a photorealistic fake. Now we won’t ever need real actors again, hyuk hyuk hyuk.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:06 am
you know what? I dont think anyone can beat the realism of the characters in who framed roger rabbit. when i first saw that, i couldnt tell real from animated.
seriously though, i’ll go see avatar, and if it is as good as he says, i will probably get a hard on in the theater. i have been waiting for a photo realistic cg character to come along on screen, and only a few have come close.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:07 am
I think you’re overstating the meaning of the quote you give, Peter. Reading it in a slightly less excited way, the quote basically says they got a boost to their realism by using 3D.
“Your brain is cued it’s a real thing not a picture and discounting part of [the] image that makes it look fake” - he’s just saying there that they’re getting closer to making it look totally real by removing another barrier (”part of [the] image”) to realism.
It’s extremely unlikely they’ve overcome the Uncanny Valley, what with hundreds of researchers out there only inching closer very slowly. Maybe in 10 or 20 years’ time we’ll be there.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:47 am
This will destroy transformers 2 easily in terms of vfx and could very well become the best visual effects movie of all time.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:51 am
@ Christopher Hoult
Yeah, if he’s overcome the Uncanny Valley, he just blew Moore’s Law out the window from a technological standpoint because the technological requisites to achieve that feat are supposedly a ways off. It will still looking stunning I’m sure.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:05 am
Wouldn’t it be great if James Cameron would just shut the fuck up and make a movie. Does he really need to build up the hype for this film with a decade of development. Then give weekly updates of how fucking awesome it will be. How it will change the world as we know it and nothing will ever be the same again after we see it.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:26 am
Here’s my favorite take on the uncanny valley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlcoPEF6xEY
May 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am
#1: I can’t WAIT for this film. Now more than ever. I’ve been waiting for the time when we get all CG characters that look and feel totally realistic. Hell, I’ll take a CG character over a human any day (and that day is coming!).
#2: The Final Fantasy film was amazing for the time and still is today - granted there are parts which the characters act “zombie like” but there are other scenes which feel human to me and that must be applauded. Beowulf had even more scenes where the characters acted and looked real and can’t wait to see what the future holds for all CG character development.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am
Is James Cameron still relevant? I can’t help but think that this could be $195m flop.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:02 am
“Avatar is the single most complex piece of filmmaking ever made.”
lol
May 21st, 2008 at 10:07 am
the show 30 Rock had an episode about the uncanny valley. tracy tries to make a porno video game & judah explains the whole ‘valley’ to him, it was early in season 3 and one of the funniest episodes. i love cameron’s arrogance, because he can back it up.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:38 am
Sounds like Lucas, talking.
Final Fantasy, was a flop because the entire film was nothing more that a weak story that was incased in a CGI beta test.
Who can’t forget the long shots of the main female lead… There’s shot of her face, her hair, oooo look at that sweet body, another shot of her hair. Let’s get a side shot of her face, ooooo that looks great. Ok now let’s see her interact with the wind. Ooooo look how her hair is blowing in the wind. Ooooaah. That’s great. Ok let’s get another shot of her ass, oooaahhh that’s great ok let’s do a close up of those pouty lips. Ooooaaahh. Yeah. That’s great. Ok let’s get a shot of looking real cool in the lab, ok let’s get rid of the background characters there distracting because there not as Hot as the main female. Oooaaahh yeah that’s it let’s get a close up of her reactions to this creature, aaaooooh. She’s so hot. Let’s get another shot of her ass!
And on and on, I couldn’t even finish watching thay shit.
Avitar sounds like its going to get soo caught up in its look that it possibly might not have much of a story….
Personally I think these guys “Lucas and Cameron” should write better films and leave Moores law to work itself out.
I’m not running out to see this or get a 3D version of the game.
What would SkyNet do?
May 21st, 2008 at 11:04 am
I’m just pissed cuz about 10 years ago a friend and I developed a story that was damn near exactly the same concept as this movie. If I wasn’t certain it was impossible, and undoubtedly just a coincidence, I’d be trying to figure out how we got our idea stolen. And who to sue.
Titanic aside, I generally admire James Cameron. At least he goes balls out on his projects and he is a decent screenwriter. Not great but better than most. I’m curious. I just hope it is not too gimmicky.
That being said, replacing a human actor with a CG “person” for no fucking reason is just stupid. Especially in the case of Beowolf where they just looked basically like the corpses of the actors who did the voice work.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:45 am
I thought that the uncanny valley was the dropoff in quality between the second and third Alien films?
May 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
re: “Is James Cameron still relevant? I can’t help but think that this could be $195m flop.”
That’s what they said about Titanic too. And at least from a financial perspective, that was obviously premature. I wouldn’t count him out just yet, but I always find this sort of early self congratulation really annoying no matter who the director is.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:54 pm
I don’t know why they haven’t given the option for 3D gaming before. That sounds awesome.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:57 pm
I have to agree with w smith on this one. I am curious as to whether or not they have relised any pictures/character models whatever for this? That’s a lot of talk with nothing to back it up, you know?
May 21st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
“Avatar is the single most complex piece of filmmaking ever made.”–Cameron and his ego make me want to vomit and run through the streets telling everyone I know never to watch his movies. It’s almost as bad as Tom Cruise.
On another note, I think this needs to be addressed: there’s something beyond the Uncanny Valley, even once it’s overcome. If a CG image actually reaches the point where it equals a human likeness in quality, that fact, in and of itself is creepy, and that then becomes the turnoff. It’s the same as the reason people have been writing fiction and making movies for years about what could go wrong with AI.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pm
@ Eliza
That is a subject for another day and a different site. We could split off in all directions discussing multiple theories about emergence, establishment, control, rebellion, etc. surrounding AI both factual and speculative. In the end that would just get us more off subject than this comment already has.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I’ll just read the book.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Well, I sure hope he can back it up. The movie might actually end up living up to expectation but what worries me is the part about them turning it into a game…and we’re back to the whole 3D glasses bit. A great movie does not a great video game make.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:36 pm
If they want realism, just hire Tom Hanks to do the damn movie rather than create a stupid zombie train conductor.
I’ll go for creative and artistic visuals like The Incredibles over realism any day.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Am I the only who realizes that zombies are the only unreal entity on the “uncanny” curve?
May 21st, 2008 at 6:55 pm
why did James Cameron forgert about both Pirates 2&3??? they both had a whole crew of CG people and they were all past the uncanny valley
and in case somebody is arguing that they had real actors on set, hmmm.. that’s what James Cameron is doing too!!! Last time I checked, Sam Worthington was not the only actor listed on IMDB for Avatar
and also, another thing is.. the whole 3D aspectsof the movie helps you getting less annoyed with the CG characters. Like I personally watched Beuwolf in theaters with 3D and I didn’t mind that much… but once I started watching it on DVD, it looked horrible!!!
May 21st, 2008 at 8:50 pm
It just doesn’t sound like there is a lot of “fun” involved with the Avitar production. I hope whatever they are doing is worth all the time and effort.
I’m happy with a good story told with some explosions.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:59 pm
James Cameron is one of the most influential film makers of all time and you ask if he’s still relevant?
May 21st, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Cameron turned into an asshole right after T2.