this was war, millions of people were getting uprooted, possesions stolen and seperated from their families. The Jewish people did not start WWII. any person i know in peaceful times could not steal a loaf of bread from another, but during war, starvation and oppression, people are capable of doing anything to survive. dealing in the black market, buying guns, things that most people during a peaceful time would not do. children being couriers of goods, teenage girls armed, this is not normal, this is war. and if you were in the same position, you would of tried anything to survive and fight back. I am not Jewish, but I have a heart for the Jewish people and I read the book this movie is based on about 5 years ago and thought it would make a great movie. I am pleased they finally did it. no, it wont get every fact straight, it is coming from Hollywood, but it will expose the story for the world to see.

I don’t know anything about the movie, and people who make movies have a tendency to embellish or tinker with facts for the purpose of “art” but in essence, the story is quite true.

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Now I’m no pundit, just a lowly Associate Professor of history, but I have to say that seeing the new Daniel Craig movie, DEFIANCE, was truly an extraordinary experience. I’m usually pretty skeptical of a film’s ability to do justice to history, but this was not only an honest evocation of an important overlooked event, it was also a moving, exciting and hugely powerful piece of dramatic storytelling. Several times during the two hours I found my eyes welling with emotion, and by the end I was surprised to feel so uplifted, inspired even, by its life-affirming message. I had liked Daniel Craig as the new James Bond and felt that he had real ability as an actor but I had no idea of the depth and soulfulness of his range. And Liev Schreiber was overpowering as his volatile brother. Also, Jamie Bell’s coming-of-age at the end of the story was one of its most affecting moments. Don’t know the lead actress’s name but she was very strong as well, not to mention hauntingly beautiful.

I don’t know how these things end up being decided, but all I can say is I will be incredulous if this movie isn’t among the nominees at year’s end. It’s simply everything a movie should be: great story, great acting, great action, and a fresh look at one of the most important stories of our time

Long live the Bielski legacy!

But when Poles murder Jews for as revenge for allegedly supporting the soviets in their campiagn of murder and rape in Jedwabne, its not excusable and Poles are as bad as nazis.

I condemn both of these atrocities.

Defiance is as disgusting a movie as one glorifying the heroes of Jedwabne for defeating the red menace in a barn.

I find that the Hungarian were bad too especially the Arrow Cross but since they had started to deported Jews in Hungary in the summer of 1944, by that time some Jews were saved by that time the German were losing the war.

Jews were haunted like dogs; you are wonder why the Polish Jews had helped the Russian partisans? They were the only ones that accept Jews and not all of them Bielski were the only one that accepted women, old and kids.

If you read the book about the Bielski it was obviously hard to figure out whom to trust, even with the Russian they had to “act” so they would leave them alone. Tovia was a very good politician and knew how to negotiate and that what saved the 1200 Jews.

They did not have enough food but they were very resourceful and started to open shops and did exchange services with the Russian –food/medical care- for weapon.

White Polish partisans hated Jews as much as they hated German.
I never could understand growing up in Poland as a child why we were so hated by the Poles? I know that it was a lot of propaganda seeing Jews as enemy and outsider.

Poles did believe that German would do the same to the Poles as they did to the Jews but they had run of the time.

I know that Poles were treated very harsh but how can you explain the people who consider themselves as victims started to victimize other? Why were the pogroms after the WWll? Why people who did save Jews were afraid to revel it?

Although everyone has a right to their opinions the bottom line is this was a ruthless war, the name of the game was survival under the most abnormal situations, no logic, no reasons no excuses. Neither of us were there. You can read and do all the statistics you want but the 6million were murdered and not saved due to the “neighborly” relations of the Poles as mentioned above, not to mention after the war how the good “neighbors”acted to the Jewish survivors. So basically
stop with this defending of the Poles. Yes there were many innocent people killed but when you are at war you get caught in the crossfire. I live it everyday. Remember when someone wants to kill you they mean it !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBegota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Polish_Republic

· Yes its true that Poland has the most Righteous but they had most of the Jewish population in Eroupe.3,5 million Jews, where 3 million had perished . Netherland had 85% of their Jews 106,000 who did perish during the war but the Dutch people do not fall far away from the Polish Righteous I believe that they are about 4600 Dutch people on the list and 6000 Polish.
·
· They were a lot of Hooligans who robbed, black mailed and killed Jews. They were some peasants that did hide Jews and did scarified their life to save others but they were many who did turn Jews in for a few kilos of sugar or Vodka.

· The Polish nation had two enemies the German and the Russian when the Jews saw only the German as enemy, its not that they “loved “the Russian but could “get a long better” with some extra food, vodka and fur.

· Many Jews from middle class were deported to Siberia too, until today the Poles are still saying that the Jews were communist, nor Bieliski were communist or Capitalist they were simple people who wanted to survive. They should rest in peace.

Naliboki village was armed and turned in Jews to be butchers and butchered themselves.

Poland has the most Righteous, agreed. This does not change the many Polish and Bellarussian people who butchered Jews. They did so for Jew’s property, possessions,rewards by the vermine Nazies and their collaborators and it was fueled by the simple centuries old hatred and uninhibited greed. That six thousand and more Polish people helped the Jews out of 38 or so million people 6 thousand are Righteous and assume 4 more thousand helped and were not properly recognized. That makes it 10 thousand of 38 million people which comes out to 2.6%, hardly a majority of morality living there. The continued denial by present day Polish people just means that the hatred continues just underneath but morality is now the politically correct position.

See the movie it does not portray the Polish people in a negative light whatssoever. On the contrary it focuses on the 2.6 percent of the Righteous, bless their souls.

and some more info. again.

http://www.starwon.com.au/~korey/Krzys%20Janiewicz/tuvia_bielski_and_his_partisans.htm